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Mayflower 400: the science of sailing across the ocean in 1620
- MichaelZuo 6y ago“These would have been on a cramped gun-deck (where the passengers would also live) with gun-ports” Was that really the case? It seems far more likely for the crew to have lived on the gun-decks since presumably they would have been trained to use the cannons, instead of the passengers.
- sdeer 6y agoThe crew (other than the captain who probably had his own cabin) probably stayed at the lower deck because the gun deck had better ventilation for the passengers. It took a long time after a ship first became visible for a gun battle to occur so the crew had enough time to get ready.
- pbalau 6y agoMost likely the crew used the forecastle for accommodations [0] (as they always do). I don't think the well being of passengers was a big concern for the crew. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forecastle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forecastle
- closeparen 6y agoSide note: anyone know when passenger vessels stopped being armed?
- kyle_morris_ 6y agoApparently 2 million Americans can trace their lineage to a passenger on the Mayflower who fell overboard and survived by grabbing a rope trailing behind. They include FDR, H.W. And W Bush.[1] [1] https://accesswdun.com/print/2015/11/352412 https://accesswdun.com/print/2015/11/352412
- bserge 6y agoI've always been amazed by this ability to track your ancestors hundreds of years back. Were the records that good back then? I had lots of trouble getting birth records for my great-grandparents. The system in my country was terrible, if I didn't have the exact name and date of birth, they couldn't find anything. Nothing was digitized, maybe that changed but I doubt it. In fact, I did have the wrong day but fortunately the right month and year for my great-grandfather, and it took them a month to find the information. It was expensive, too.
- hef19898 6y agoMy grandmother traced her family back to the 30 years war. No records after that. Churches are a very good source for that in Europe. That being said, I never understood the obsession with lineage.
- onetimemanytime 6y agowhy not? What's the harm in knowing.
- hef19898 6y agoNo harm, I'm just not that interested in that kind of stuff it seems.
- TedDoesntTalk 6y agoI understand your sentiment, but I gain humility and inspiration knowing how my ancestors lived and the sacrifices they made to have a better life. To each his own.
- saalweachter 6y agoThere's also the reciprocal promise: we try to remember our ancestors and hope our descendants will remember us.
- audiodude 6y agoI remember the Mayflower Compact vaguely from school, but didn't really understand its significance until I read this article.
- irrational 6y ago> To think, if he hadn't made it, I wouldn't even be here Isn’t that the case for literally every one of our ancestors? Any one of them was one accident, disease, etc. away from not having the child that became the next link in the chain between them and me.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- jialutu 6y agohttps://www.mayflowerpub.co.uk/ https://www.mayflowerpub.co.uk/ One of the best pubs in London if you are in the area. Never disappoints.
- mbzi 6y agoUsed to live around the corner. Nice owner, good food and a great beer selection. I now [Ironically?] live in the states and miss that pub quite a lot.
- jvanderbot 6y agoI'm amazed they were only off by 63 miles, given the article claims dead reckoning was so inaccurate. I'm even more amazed they knew where they were relative to their destination after 66 days of dead reckoning.
- throwaway0a5e 6y agoThe east coast had been mapped by that point. They knew where they were even if they were unhappy about it.
- mauvehaus 6y agoCrucially, that's 63 miles North of Virginia. Latitude is relatively straightforward to measure. It's pretty well given that if you sail west from Northern Europe, you'll hit North America. Hitting it at your intended latitude might depend on the winds, but one you bump into it, it should be pretty easy for a competent navigator to tell you how far off your target you were in latitude. Given decent maps, figuring out longitude is probably not a tall order either if you know your latitude and you're on the coast.
- jvanderbot 6y agoAh great point! Since the east coast is mostly north-south, it was possible to check distance relative to the destination easily. Thanks!
- throwaway0a5e 6y agoI've been reading a lot about the 1600-1700 period recently and it always amazes me how quickly these people went from "our first goal is to not starve and our second goal live as good Christians" to "let's attack anyone and anything that doesn't share our view of what good a good Christian is" On one hand humanity doesn't change much so it's not that surprising but 400yr later you can still see the scars the backwards ideologies of various groups of early settlers left on New England.
- stephenhuey 6y agoI just read a recent biography of Dr. Benjamin Rush and it’s clear that even before the American revolution there were some strongly opposing views of how to treat native Americans and whether or not it was morally defensible to enslave Africans. So some who called themselves Christians would accept these practices and many others, like Rush, loudly opposed them (just like the disagreements that happen within groups today).
- throwaway0a5e 6y agoIt's amazing how many parallels there are between the issues of 1620-1760 and the issues of the modern day (like 2020 modern, not just the current century). The issues have changed but humanity hasn't. The thing that really hit home for me was the rhetoric they sued to go after Morton, Williams and the other RI guy who had no issue with the natives (the name escapes me). It's like a straight copypasta from today.
- KineticLensman 6y agoThe eternal themes that recur throughout history: Master or slave Have or have not Home or exile
- mbroncano 6y agoI found out today that the first university (!) in the continent dates back to the 1550s [0]. What made the Spaniards so successful that they were able not only to defeat a full blown civilization (as opposed to the weaker natives in the north) and were able to fully bootstrap their territories where the English took many attempts and failures? Was it the technology? Or just the nature of the northern territories? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colonial_universities_in_Hispanic_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colonial_universities_...
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago>Was it the technology? Or just the nature of the northern territories? The English were the poors of Europe at the time. They couldn't afford well funded settlement expeditions. Jamestown barely survived. The Pilgrims were basically shown the door and had no better options. Then everyone on the wrong side of the English civil war came over shortly thereafter.
- drocer88 6y agoEnglish were not the poors of Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_(P...
- morsch 6y agoThat list starts after 1800, so 200 years after the events otherwise discussed in this thread. Though absent other evidence I'm inclined to believe you.
- pvg 6y agoThis is a gross oversimplification but the purpose and goals of their expeditions were just completely different. Even the earliest Spanish expeditions were (in part) state-approved, armed and essentially get-rich-quick plundering schemes. The existence of advanced (but less well armed) urban civilizations just encouraged them since it meant potential for gold. A lot of now-famous early British colonizers were basically groups of funky religious malcontents hoping to establish their own little theocracies. Their state approval was more along the lines of 'good riddance'.