6 ms·

I'm so confused about what's going on now. First it was Microsoft, then it was a technology deal with Oracle, now it's Walmart? and Oracle taking a majority sta

I'm so confused about what's going on now. First it was Microsoft, then it was a technology deal with Oracle, now it's Walmart? and Oracle taking a majority stake, spinning out the global operations? Oh and Trump thinks MS are still involved despite them saying their offer was rejected? Oh and the IPO is planned for long after the election so wouldn't? happen if Trump loses. Oh and meanwhile the likelihood of China letting themselves get bullied out of one of their biggest tech successes. How much of Google, Apple, and Facebook will have to spin off to Chinese corporations in return?

tenebrisalietum 6y ago
Not clear why you expect any less out of 2020.
loceng 6y ago
It's more complex and nuanced than this what you've stated of course, why it's so confusing. Arguably, aside from security risk of the CCP having access to the data, banning apps is an leverage against the CCP having economic access to Americans to help influence the CCP to stopping their human rights abuses. If the CCP had allowed the United Nations to visit the prisons/concentration camps to interview prisoners (etc) then this could have all quickly gone away, assuming the CCP was being honest about what was happening at these concentration camps and the UN could confirm that on the ground.
- CameronNemo 6y ago
  There is absolutely nothing that would convince me that this administration cares about human rights.
  - loceng 6y ago
    Agreed, it's happenstance that it's an issue they could piggyback on looking for "tough on China" propaganda all for appearance purposes.
- cagenut 6y ago
  why would anyone who was alive in 2003 even pretend to believe that a "UN Inspectors" offer from the US is made in good faith?
  - Larrikin 6y ago
    Is your solution that they should be completely dissolved because of 2003?
- puranjay 6y ago
  > CCP having access to the data Wow, CCP will be able to slide into 17 year olds' DMs. Massive security threat. So much of the TikTok hysteria has been built on "CCP will have X". Is there any verifiable proof at all that CCP is actively and illegally accessing user data through TikTok?
  - ericjang 6y ago
    Yes https://twitter.com/ericjang11/status/1289713401992683523?s=20 https://twitter.com/ericjang11/status/1289713401992683523?s=...
    - freebasenic 6y ago
      Linking a few of your own tweets to youtube videos is not very enlightening. Do you have an actual sourced article stating that the CCP is illegally accessing user data?
      - ericjang 6y ago
        Sorry, I misread the original question. I am not aware of the CCP accessing TikTok user data (for instance, to track dissidents or surreptitiously use it to compute social credit scores).
      - jariel 6y ago
        ? I'm shocked the question needs to be posed. All Chinese companies have CCP organs within them that the CPP uses to ensure the company adheres to party policy. They are using the internet and all it's operating entities as a massive surveillance and enforcement machine. Try posting a TikTok critical of China, or saying something about HK and see what happens. The data from Chinese apps can be accessed by Xi & Co. whenever, for whatever purposes, including finding out who your friends are so they can be sanctioned/imprisoned as well. Now - TikTok USA division - that's another story and it's hard to tell how far enforcement goes. Definitely it's censored and definitely there are elements of propaganda (you can tell from the content) but it's not hugely obvious. As far as data mining, I don't have specific information but I don't see any reason why they wouldn't have access to it just like WeChat. FYI This is why WeChat is 100% banned and there's no option for them while TikTok has an option to cut off from the parent company. [1] https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/politics-in-the-boardroom-the-role-of-chinese-communist-party-committees/ https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/politics-in-the-boardroom-th... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/25/china-business-xi-jinping-communist-party-state-private-enterprise-huawei https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/25/china-business...
- viscanti 6y ago
  > the CCP having access to the data. The data isn't the most valuable part. Which videos someone likes to watch could be worth something, but given how much easily available information there is already online this isn't a particularly valuable (or sensitive) thing. The much bigger issue is the algorithm that decides what content to show people. The CCP could decide to leverage that black box to push content that influences users in the ways they desire. That's why the CCP passed a new law to allow them to ban the sale of the algorithm (and they've expressed their willingness to use that to actually block the sale of the TikTok algorithm). Their goal is to either keep control of that so they can influence international users or to keep their potential involvement opaque so that anyone who engages with the algorithm continues to be unaware of the fact that the CCP can push content to any user they want.
  - nightski 6y ago
    It was discovered the TikTok app was specifically gathering a lot more data from your phone than was relevant to the service at hand. This was a big thread on HN a little while back. I do agree with your second point however.
    - viscanti 6y ago
      Sure. My point is that the data they collect isn't especially valuable given how much other data is easily accessible for a nation state. The value isn't zero but if the Chinese Government loses the data about what TikTok videos people watched they aren't going to lose any sleep over it.
- scarface74 6y ago
  It’s really not that nuanced at all. Trump blames TikTok for ruining his first rally, when people used the platform to register for an event they had no intention of going to. Just like Trump is going after Twitter and FB for being “unfair to conservatives”.
- jariel 6y ago
  " then this could have all quickly gone away" That's only a small part of what Trump cares about. Security and trade are much bigger concerns. Also - this is an election ploy to 'look tough'.
redisman 6y ago
Plus it was removed from the Appstores today or something? Is that going to get reverted then? This is so chaotic which is not unexpected when Trump is involved.
duxup 6y ago
The overall story is crazy. But a lot of different players coming and going to see if they want to buy something, that's not unheard of.
jjcon 6y ago
> How much of Google, Apple, and Facebook will have to spin off to Chinese corporations in return You haven’t kept up on China’s policies on these companies over the past decade have you?
- jbay808 6y ago
  Can you clarify what you mean?
  - jjcon 6y ago
    Google and Facebook were banned long ago in China - if anything these actions are retaliation for that. Apple has been allowed in but has had to divest all data hosting to Chinese controlled companies.
    - cmauniada 6y ago
      This is a point most people seem to forget. In simpler terms it's retaliation - granted they could have done this a long time a go? maybe... but right now there are other interests at stake as well.
    - tomComb 6y ago
      Google wasn't banned. They pulled out due (primarily) to requirement that they censor search results.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - three_seagrass 6y ago
        That is still saying the same thing, isn't it?
  - verdverm 6y ago
    https://www.asiatimesfinancial.com/ccp-announces-plan-to-take-control-of-chinas-private-sector https://www.asiatimesfinancial.com/ccp-announces-plan-to-tak...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
itomato 6y ago
For a free app without any revenue. It's like the parasitic Cordyceps mushroom.

tenebrisalietum 6y ago

Not clear why you expect any less out of 2020.

loceng 6y ago

It's more complex and nuanced than this what you've stated of course, why it's so confusing. Arguably, aside from security risk of the CCP having access to the data, banning apps is an leverage against the CCP having economic access to Americans to help influence the CCP to stopping their human rights abuses. If the CCP had allowed the United Nations to visit the prisons/concentration camps to interview prisoners (etc) then this could have all quickly gone away, assuming the CCP was being honest about what was happening at these concentration camps and the UN could confirm that on the ground.

CameronNemo 6y ago
There is absolutely nothing that would convince me that this administration cares about human rights.
- loceng 6y ago
  Agreed, it's happenstance that it's an issue they could piggyback on looking for "tough on China" propaganda all for appearance purposes.
cagenut 6y ago
why would anyone who was alive in 2003 even pretend to believe that a "UN Inspectors" offer from the US is made in good faith?
- Larrikin 6y ago
  Is your solution that they should be completely dissolved because of 2003?
puranjay 6y ago
> CCP having access to the data Wow, CCP will be able to slide into 17 year olds' DMs. Massive security threat. So much of the TikTok hysteria has been built on "CCP will have X". Is there any verifiable proof at all that CCP is actively and illegally accessing user data through TikTok?
- ericjang 6y ago
  Yes https://twitter.com/ericjang11/status/1289713401992683523?s=20 https://twitter.com/ericjang11/status/1289713401992683523?s=...
  - freebasenic 6y ago
    Linking a few of your own tweets to youtube videos is not very enlightening. Do you have an actual sourced article stating that the CCP is illegally accessing user data?
    - ericjang 6y ago
      Sorry, I misread the original question. I am not aware of the CCP accessing TikTok user data (for instance, to track dissidents or surreptitiously use it to compute social credit scores).
    - jariel 6y ago
      ? I'm shocked the question needs to be posed. All Chinese companies have CCP organs within them that the CPP uses to ensure the company adheres to party policy. They are using the internet and all it's operating entities as a massive surveillance and enforcement machine. Try posting a TikTok critical of China, or saying something about HK and see what happens. The data from Chinese apps can be accessed by Xi & Co. whenever, for whatever purposes, including finding out who your friends are so they can be sanctioned/imprisoned as well. Now - TikTok USA division - that's another story and it's hard to tell how far enforcement goes. Definitely it's censored and definitely there are elements of propaganda (you can tell from the content) but it's not hugely obvious. As far as data mining, I don't have specific information but I don't see any reason why they wouldn't have access to it just like WeChat. FYI This is why WeChat is 100% banned and there's no option for them while TikTok has an option to cut off from the parent company. [1] https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/politics-in-the-boardroom-the-role-of-chinese-communist-party-committees/ https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/politics-in-the-boardroom-th... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/25/china-business-xi-jinping-communist-party-state-private-enterprise-huawei https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/25/china-business...
viscanti 6y ago
> the CCP having access to the data. The data isn't the most valuable part. Which videos someone likes to watch could be worth something, but given how much easily available information there is already online this isn't a particularly valuable (or sensitive) thing. The much bigger issue is the algorithm that decides what content to show people. The CCP could decide to leverage that black box to push content that influences users in the ways they desire. That's why the CCP passed a new law to allow them to ban the sale of the algorithm (and they've expressed their willingness to use that to actually block the sale of the TikTok algorithm). Their goal is to either keep control of that so they can influence international users or to keep their potential involvement opaque so that anyone who engages with the algorithm continues to be unaware of the fact that the CCP can push content to any user they want.
- nightski 6y ago
  It was discovered the TikTok app was specifically gathering a lot more data from your phone than was relevant to the service at hand. This was a big thread on HN a little while back. I do agree with your second point however.
  - viscanti 6y ago
    Sure. My point is that the data they collect isn't especially valuable given how much other data is easily accessible for a nation state. The value isn't zero but if the Chinese Government loses the data about what TikTok videos people watched they aren't going to lose any sleep over it.
scarface74 6y ago
It’s really not that nuanced at all. Trump blames TikTok for ruining his first rally, when people used the platform to register for an event they had no intention of going to. Just like Trump is going after Twitter and FB for being “unfair to conservatives”.
jariel 6y ago
" then this could have all quickly gone away" That's only a small part of what Trump cares about. Security and trade are much bigger concerns. Also - this is an election ploy to 'look tough'.

redisman 6y ago

Plus it was removed from the Appstores today or something? Is that going to get reverted then? This is so chaotic which is not unexpected when Trump is involved.

duxup 6y ago

The overall story is crazy. But a lot of different players coming and going to see if they want to buy something, that's not unheard of.

jjcon 6y ago

> How much of Google, Apple, and Facebook will have to spin off to Chinese corporations in return You haven’t kept up on China’s policies on these companies over the past decade have you?

jbay808 6y ago
Can you clarify what you mean?
- jjcon 6y ago
  Google and Facebook were banned long ago in China - if anything these actions are retaliation for that. Apple has been allowed in but has had to divest all data hosting to Chinese controlled companies.
  - cmauniada 6y ago
    This is a point most people seem to forget. In simpler terms it's retaliation - granted they could have done this a long time a go? maybe... but right now there are other interests at stake as well.
  - tomComb 6y ago
    Google wasn't banned. They pulled out due (primarily) to requirement that they censor search results.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - three_seagrass 6y ago
      That is still saying the same thing, isn't it?
- verdverm 6y ago
  https://www.asiatimesfinancial.com/ccp-announces-plan-to-take-control-of-chinas-private-sector https://www.asiatimesfinancial.com/ccp-announces-plan-to-tak...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

itomato 6y ago

For a free app without any revenue. It's like the parasitic Cordyceps mushroom.