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Can you talk more to the practicalities of getting rid of a smartphone? Have you seriously found that the loss of the conveniences they bring haven't been that

Can you talk more to the practicalities of getting rid of a smartphone? Have you seriously found that the loss of the conveniences they bring haven't been that burdensome? I am really intrigued by the idea but find it almost inconceivable to work for me (which might speak to an addiction, so I feel compelled to understand this further)

apetresc 6y ago
Specifically what functionality do you feel is so critical? The only thing I really struggled with at first was: - 2FA codes, but a self-hosted Bitwarden and a Yubikey solved that well enough - Maps. This is a legitimate sacrifice, especially for someone with as poor a sense of direction as I have. But between the mapping application in my car and looking things up before I leave somewhere on my laptop, it's not been a huge problem.
- codr7 6y ago
  I got a simple CAT-model that runs KaiOS. It sort of supports Maps, but is inconvenient enough to kill the temptation to use it for everything. As an added bonus, it's water proof, doesn't crack when dropped and the battery lasts a week.
- SamBam 6y ago
  For me: Maps and WhatsApp. I could probably ditch Maps (by using my spouse's when needed, not sure if that counts...), but I have family abroad and other family here), and kid photos to send etc etc. It's true I could do most of that via email, but the rest of the family is on WhatsApp and I would genuinely feel more disconnected from them then I already do.
  - beefield 6y ago
    You can install whatsapp on a virtual android machine on your desktop/laptop. I did that for a while and used a dumb phone (new nokia 8110) as my main phone and hotspot for a while. I kind of enjoyed it, but a couple of things made me give up for now.: First, abysmally bad battery life when using it as a hotspot (and no auto wifi disable when no devices connected). Second, laughably slow charging. Like, not even net charging when using lots of data via wifi hotspot and even in best case something like 4 hours to charge from empty to full. I am still keen to buy a dumb phone that fixes these.
    - SamBam 6y ago
      I thought WhatsApp needed to verify the device using a phone number? Does that work with the virtual Android?
- stevensawtelle 6y ago
  I think music/podcasts would be a big sacrifice for me. I suppose I could do a dedicated MP3 player for music, but especially with podcasts the live-updating feed is something I really enjoy.
  - 3np 6y ago
    You could host this and couple it with whatever would be a good client/player for you: https://github.com/airsonic-advanced/airsonic-advanced https://github.com/airsonic-advanced/airsonic-advanced
ocdtrekkie 6y ago
I have my smartphone and am not the OP, but I spent several years on Windows Mobile which supported almost no apps, so it was kinda like a dumbphone. I think people often overestimate their need. People act like they can't live without Google Maps, but 90% of them take the same route to work every day. I would argue if you aren't traveling outside your local area, you have zero need for a mapping app. It's true you may not be notified of a slightly faster route because of some unforeseen event, but the difference is probably a couple minutes at most, and you should know your local streets well enough to get along anyways. There was the rare event where I couldn't participate in some restaurant's rewards program because they only did it via iOS/Android app, and that was annoying, but it also led me to just use that business less.
- manaskarekar 6y ago
  This was also my experience with the Lumia 920 (greatest phone + OS combo ever IMHO). The maps ("Here") on Windows Mobile were actually not bad at all. Using this phone taught me not to be obsessed with instant mail notifications among other things.
  - Spearchucker 6y ago
    I still use my 950. People get annoyed with me because I don't use messenger or WhatsApp. It does email and phone calls just fine. Anything other than that or surfing the intertoobs can wait until I get to a PC.
    - jkepler 6y ago
      When I was in Europe in 2018/2019 (where they still had decent 3G network coverage unlike my provider here in the USA) I used my Nokia N900 as my daily driver, not as a smartphone but primarily a feature phone with a full keyboard and a Linux terminal for bash scripting on the go. In fact, I used a bash script to track my cash expenses rather than a dedicated app.
    - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      I just left my Elite x3 behind this year. Best phone I've ever owned. But I consider security updates a must-have, so I dropped it when Microsoft finally stopped pushing updates.
blackearl 6y ago
I would think it's better to develop the will power to not hop on your phone whenever available, take a breath, smell the flowers, but also still have the option of something as amazing as GPS. Not really interested in going back to pulling over and looking at a map these days.
- perlgod 6y ago
  "muh GPS" is definitely the most common argument people give me. Garmin still makes car GPS units. I have one and it works well. To be fair, I was able to refrain from mindless scrolling all the time. But with the phone nearby, I always wanted to mindlessly scroll during every random quiet moment. I liken it to an alcoholic keeping an ice cold beer on his desk all day, but doing his best not to take a sip. Why subject yourself? I experimented without a smartphone and I am happier as a result. This will probably not be the case for everyone. But, if you ever feel like a slave to your own technology, I highly recommend trying it out.
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  Developing will power is one of those "easier said than done" things. At the end of a long day of work, without my phone, I find my ability to focus is shot. Especially since I can't work out like I used to, a few more weeks and I should be able to again. Workouts physically exhaust me but restore my mental focus. There are lots of things that drain people (emotionally, mentally) that leaves them in a similar state, where having the device present is just too strong a temptation and then an hour or more is gone.
- wussboy 6y ago
  Will power don’t really work that way. Studies show it is an exhaustible resource and if you’re using it all day to fight of pulling your phone out of your pocket, you won’t have it for anything else you do in your day (and you’ll STILL probably pull your phone out!) The people with the best will power have organized their lives so that they don’t need will power.
  - reificator 6y ago
    I was under the impression that those studies not only failed to replicate but in fact more recent studies found the opposite...
perlgod 6y ago
I have not found it to be overly burdensome. I have an indestructible kyocera flip phone, so I'm able to call people (and SMS in a pinch). I have an LTE-enabled tablet, so if I'm going somewhere totally unfamiliar, I'll throw it in my bag just in case I need to look up some information. Otherwise you just have to plan your outings in advance - like we always did prior to 2008 or so. I have a Garmin GPS mounted in car for road trips, which I honestly prefer since it doesn't tempt me to fiddle with it while driving like a smartphone does. I also carry a semi-nice digital camera sometimes. It's obviously not as convenient as a smartphone camera, but I find I am more thoughtful and appreciative of the photos I take as a result. I use more paper items (small paper notebook for grocery lists, transit tickets instead of using the app, etc). This can be somewhat freeing, as I've missed my ferry a handful of times because their app glitched out. My personality tends towards obsession and analysis paralysis, which can be good for programming but sometimes bad for real life. I no longer obsess over which restaurant has the best looking pictures or online reviews, I just walk inside and try it out. Sometimes this is for the better, sometimes for the worse, but it's definitely a more human experience. Without the smartphone, I also find I am much more inclined to talk to random strangers, since I can't just whip out the phone during awkward silent moments. With lack of FOMO, I am also much more present with family and friends, which is probably the biggest benefit.
- stagehn 6y ago
  Thank you for sharing these experiences
- wussboy 6y ago
  Thanks for your great response. I’ve often considered doing something like this. I wonder if there is a way to accomplish many of these things while still carrying your phone? For example, what if your phone took 5 minutes to unlock? And didn’t give notifications until you unlocked it? Just a thought.
  - mdiesel 6y ago
    My OnePlus (not sure how widespread the feature is on android) has a Zen Mode, once started you can't use the phone for most things until the timer elapses. A bit different, but good if you want a break.
sumtechguy 6y ago
I have found many smart phones have a low power mode. This basically makes the phone into a phone that can run voice, text, and maybe one other application. The upside is the battery lasts like a week. If it was not for hangouts I probably would put my phone in that mode for that reason alone.
bentcorner 6y ago
If you have a Samsung phone a more gradual step in this direction is their maximum battery saver mode (my S7 had it, at least, not sure about more recent models). It turns the phone into close to a dumb phone (iirc no social media apps, maybe a web browser). Only a subset of preapproved apps are available in this mode.
- frosted-flakes 6y ago
  > not sure about more recent models My Galaxy S10e has it.
apricot 6y ago
Not OP, but I also made the choice not to carry a phone (not even a dumb phone) because I don't want the inconvenience of carrying an interrupting device everywhere I go. There's a phone at home and one in my office for emergencies, but other business gets done by email, on my terms. I live in a (non-US) large city, walk or bike to work every day and don't own a car. We have a pretty good public transit system which I used to use a lot, pre-covid. The biggest inconvenience of not carrying a cell phone was that I didn't have access to live bus and subway schedules, so I would sometimes take a suboptimal route to my destination. My schedule is done on paper in a pocket schedule book that I always carry. I also carry a pen, a simple watch, a Swiss army knife, and a small flashlight, all of which I use at least once every day. I also always have a book in my bag, for reading while waiting for the bus, the doctor, or other things and people. I look things up on the Internet at home. I'm not saying I will never carry a phone, but it seems that not having a phone is the right choice for me at the moment.
searchableguy 6y ago
It's not practical. Many malls and chains have moved to digital order/payment systems. What I recommend is installing a very learn custom ROM and use vpn + pihole. You can find and install one of those social media blocklist.
frodetb 6y ago
I've done the same thing, and started out with an extremely dumb feature phone. Maps and IM were the biggest losses, and meant I needed to plan activities to a much larger degree before going out. I'd have details settled with friends before leaving my connection to the group chat. I'd plan out my route in google maps and try to memorize where destinations were and how to get to them. Of these two, only the lack of maps is a real step back. I've come to appreciate the need for clear planning that comes out of not having my group chats with me constantly. The feature phone was doomed from the start, since it only had a 2G connection which is going away. But then that phone broke after a rainstorm, and I got a Nokia 2720 Flip running KaiOS. It has 4G, can work as a wifi hotspot, and has a version of Google Maps that is surprisingly not-terrible. With that, I lost my only real pain points. AND I have a cool retro looking satisfyingly flippy flip-phone. I highly reccommend it to anyone who wants to listen.
bcoughlan 6y ago
I moved back to a Nokia feature-phone for a few years. I missed out on social events by not having WhatsApp. The real problem app for me was the browser. Now I have a smartphone now with some modifications: rooted, removed Play Store and Chrome. If I want to have a browser for a few days I download and sideload the Firefox APK. If I get into bad habits I just remove it again. I also have a Kindle, and instead of reading on the computer I use the "Send to Kindle" extension so I can read them in depth later. It's just too hard to focus on the screen, especially because I'm usually browsing articles as a means of procrastination anyways. People find it bizarre and hilarious when I explain my smartphone setup, but compared to a few years ago the reactions are much more understanding, because even non-tech people these days recognize that they have a problem. It has also done wonders for my attention span. I wonder if the reason public discourse has gone to shit is because people struggle to consume info longer than a tweet.
tboyd47 6y ago
There are different levels of “getting rid of.” I have several smartphones but don’t use them as phones, and don’t carry them on my person. For cell service I have a dumb phone (Alcatel MyFlip) I keep on me. I’ve operated like this for years and find no loss of convenience at all. Whatever I need a smartphone for (2FA codes, podcasts, Discord, etc.) I can do at home with Wi-Fi. Everything else I can do on a computer. The only thing mildly inconvenient is having to ask people for directions sometimes (which is really only inconvenient for them, because of their embarrassment at not being able to explain how to get to their own house). Overall, it definitely helps with social etiquette and living in the moment. It makes you more in tune with other people. Having to keep a smartphone on you at all times to function is a burden, instead of the other way around. It’s a burden placed on you by corporations and governments.

apetresc 6y ago

Specifically what functionality do you feel is so critical? The only thing I really struggled with at first was: - 2FA codes, but a self-hosted Bitwarden and a Yubikey solved that well enough - Maps. This is a legitimate sacrifice, especially for someone with as poor a sense of direction as I have. But between the mapping application in my car and looking things up before I leave somewhere on my laptop, it's not been a huge problem.

codr7 6y ago
I got a simple CAT-model that runs KaiOS. It sort of supports Maps, but is inconvenient enough to kill the temptation to use it for everything. As an added bonus, it's water proof, doesn't crack when dropped and the battery lasts a week.
SamBam 6y ago
For me: Maps and WhatsApp. I could probably ditch Maps (by using my spouse's when needed, not sure if that counts...), but I have family abroad and other family here), and kid photos to send etc etc. It's true I could do most of that via email, but the rest of the family is on WhatsApp and I would genuinely feel more disconnected from them then I already do.
- beefield 6y ago
  You can install whatsapp on a virtual android machine on your desktop/laptop. I did that for a while and used a dumb phone (new nokia 8110) as my main phone and hotspot for a while. I kind of enjoyed it, but a couple of things made me give up for now.: First, abysmally bad battery life when using it as a hotspot (and no auto wifi disable when no devices connected). Second, laughably slow charging. Like, not even net charging when using lots of data via wifi hotspot and even in best case something like 4 hours to charge from empty to full. I am still keen to buy a dumb phone that fixes these.
  - SamBam 6y ago
    I thought WhatsApp needed to verify the device using a phone number? Does that work with the virtual Android?
stevensawtelle 6y ago
I think music/podcasts would be a big sacrifice for me. I suppose I could do a dedicated MP3 player for music, but especially with podcasts the live-updating feed is something I really enjoy.
- 3np 6y ago
  You could host this and couple it with whatever would be a good client/player for you: https://github.com/airsonic-advanced/airsonic-advanced https://github.com/airsonic-advanced/airsonic-advanced

ocdtrekkie 6y ago

I have my smartphone and am not the OP, but I spent several years on Windows Mobile which supported almost no apps, so it was kinda like a dumbphone. I think people often overestimate their need. People act like they can't live without Google Maps, but 90% of them take the same route to work every day. I would argue if you aren't traveling outside your local area, you have zero need for a mapping app. It's true you may not be notified of a slightly faster route because of some unforeseen event, but the difference is probably a couple minutes at most, and you should know your local streets well enough to get along anyways. There was the rare event where I couldn't participate in some restaurant's rewards program because they only did it via iOS/Android app, and that was annoying, but it also led me to just use that business less.

manaskarekar 6y ago
This was also my experience with the Lumia 920 (greatest phone + OS combo ever IMHO). The maps ("Here") on Windows Mobile were actually not bad at all. Using this phone taught me not to be obsessed with instant mail notifications among other things.
- Spearchucker 6y ago
  I still use my 950. People get annoyed with me because I don't use messenger or WhatsApp. It does email and phone calls just fine. Anything other than that or surfing the intertoobs can wait until I get to a PC.
  - jkepler 6y ago
    When I was in Europe in 2018/2019 (where they still had decent 3G network coverage unlike my provider here in the USA) I used my Nokia N900 as my daily driver, not as a smartphone but primarily a feature phone with a full keyboard and a Linux terminal for bash scripting on the go. In fact, I used a bash script to track my cash expenses rather than a dedicated app.
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    I just left my Elite x3 behind this year. Best phone I've ever owned. But I consider security updates a must-have, so I dropped it when Microsoft finally stopped pushing updates.

blackearl 6y ago

I would think it's better to develop the will power to not hop on your phone whenever available, take a breath, smell the flowers, but also still have the option of something as amazing as GPS. Not really interested in going back to pulling over and looking at a map these days.

perlgod 6y ago
"muh GPS" is definitely the most common argument people give me. Garmin still makes car GPS units. I have one and it works well. To be fair, I was able to refrain from mindless scrolling all the time. But with the phone nearby, I always wanted to mindlessly scroll during every random quiet moment. I liken it to an alcoholic keeping an ice cold beer on his desk all day, but doing his best not to take a sip. Why subject yourself? I experimented without a smartphone and I am happier as a result. This will probably not be the case for everyone. But, if you ever feel like a slave to your own technology, I highly recommend trying it out.
Jtsummers 6y ago
Developing will power is one of those "easier said than done" things. At the end of a long day of work, without my phone, I find my ability to focus is shot. Especially since I can't work out like I used to, a few more weeks and I should be able to again. Workouts physically exhaust me but restore my mental focus. There are lots of things that drain people (emotionally, mentally) that leaves them in a similar state, where having the device present is just too strong a temptation and then an hour or more is gone.
wussboy 6y ago
Will power don’t really work that way. Studies show it is an exhaustible resource and if you’re using it all day to fight of pulling your phone out of your pocket, you won’t have it for anything else you do in your day (and you’ll STILL probably pull your phone out!) The people with the best will power have organized their lives so that they don’t need will power.
- reificator 6y ago
  I was under the impression that those studies not only failed to replicate but in fact more recent studies found the opposite...

perlgod 6y ago

I have not found it to be overly burdensome. I have an indestructible kyocera flip phone, so I'm able to call people (and SMS in a pinch). I have an LTE-enabled tablet, so if I'm going somewhere totally unfamiliar, I'll throw it in my bag just in case I need to look up some information. Otherwise you just have to plan your outings in advance - like we always did prior to 2008 or so. I have a Garmin GPS mounted in car for road trips, which I honestly prefer since it doesn't tempt me to fiddle with it while driving like a smartphone does. I also carry a semi-nice digital camera sometimes. It's obviously not as convenient as a smartphone camera, but I find I am more thoughtful and appreciative of the photos I take as a result. I use more paper items (small paper notebook for grocery lists, transit tickets instead of using the app, etc). This can be somewhat freeing, as I've missed my ferry a handful of times because their app glitched out. My personality tends towards obsession and analysis paralysis, which can be good for programming but sometimes bad for real life. I no longer obsess over which restaurant has the best looking pictures or online reviews, I just walk inside and try it out. Sometimes this is for the better, sometimes for the worse, but it's definitely a more human experience. Without the smartphone, I also find I am much more inclined to talk to random strangers, since I can't just whip out the phone during awkward silent moments. With lack of FOMO, I am also much more present with family and friends, which is probably the biggest benefit.

stagehn 6y ago
Thank you for sharing these experiences
wussboy 6y ago
Thanks for your great response. I’ve often considered doing something like this. I wonder if there is a way to accomplish many of these things while still carrying your phone? For example, what if your phone took 5 minutes to unlock? And didn’t give notifications until you unlocked it? Just a thought.
- mdiesel 6y ago
  My OnePlus (not sure how widespread the feature is on android) has a Zen Mode, once started you can't use the phone for most things until the timer elapses. A bit different, but good if you want a break.

sumtechguy 6y ago

I have found many smart phones have a low power mode. This basically makes the phone into a phone that can run voice, text, and maybe one other application. The upside is the battery lasts like a week. If it was not for hangouts I probably would put my phone in that mode for that reason alone.

bentcorner 6y ago

If you have a Samsung phone a more gradual step in this direction is their maximum battery saver mode (my S7 had it, at least, not sure about more recent models). It turns the phone into close to a dumb phone (iirc no social media apps, maybe a web browser). Only a subset of preapproved apps are available in this mode.

frosted-flakes 6y ago
> not sure about more recent models My Galaxy S10e has it.

apricot 6y ago

Not OP, but I also made the choice not to carry a phone (not even a dumb phone) because I don't want the inconvenience of carrying an interrupting device everywhere I go. There's a phone at home and one in my office for emergencies, but other business gets done by email, on my terms. I live in a (non-US) large city, walk or bike to work every day and don't own a car. We have a pretty good public transit system which I used to use a lot, pre-covid. The biggest inconvenience of not carrying a cell phone was that I didn't have access to live bus and subway schedules, so I would sometimes take a suboptimal route to my destination. My schedule is done on paper in a pocket schedule book that I always carry. I also carry a pen, a simple watch, a Swiss army knife, and a small flashlight, all of which I use at least once every day. I also always have a book in my bag, for reading while waiting for the bus, the doctor, or other things and people. I look things up on the Internet at home. I'm not saying I will never carry a phone, but it seems that not having a phone is the right choice for me at the moment.

searchableguy 6y ago

It's not practical. Many malls and chains have moved to digital order/payment systems. What I recommend is installing a very learn custom ROM and use vpn + pihole. You can find and install one of those social media blocklist.

frodetb 6y ago

I've done the same thing, and started out with an extremely dumb feature phone. Maps and IM were the biggest losses, and meant I needed to plan activities to a much larger degree before going out. I'd have details settled with friends before leaving my connection to the group chat. I'd plan out my route in google maps and try to memorize where destinations were and how to get to them. Of these two, only the lack of maps is a real step back. I've come to appreciate the need for clear planning that comes out of not having my group chats with me constantly. The feature phone was doomed from the start, since it only had a 2G connection which is going away. But then that phone broke after a rainstorm, and I got a Nokia 2720 Flip running KaiOS. It has 4G, can work as a wifi hotspot, and has a version of Google Maps that is surprisingly not-terrible. With that, I lost my only real pain points. AND I have a cool retro looking satisfyingly flippy flip-phone. I highly reccommend it to anyone who wants to listen.

bcoughlan 6y ago

I moved back to a Nokia feature-phone for a few years. I missed out on social events by not having WhatsApp. The real problem app for me was the browser. Now I have a smartphone now with some modifications: rooted, removed Play Store and Chrome. If I want to have a browser for a few days I download and sideload the Firefox APK. If I get into bad habits I just remove it again. I also have a Kindle, and instead of reading on the computer I use the "Send to Kindle" extension so I can read them in depth later. It's just too hard to focus on the screen, especially because I'm usually browsing articles as a means of procrastination anyways. People find it bizarre and hilarious when I explain my smartphone setup, but compared to a few years ago the reactions are much more understanding, because even non-tech people these days recognize that they have a problem. It has also done wonders for my attention span. I wonder if the reason public discourse has gone to shit is because people struggle to consume info longer than a tweet.

tboyd47 6y ago

There are different levels of “getting rid of.” I have several smartphones but don’t use them as phones, and don’t carry them on my person. For cell service I have a dumb phone (Alcatel MyFlip) I keep on me. I’ve operated like this for years and find no loss of convenience at all. Whatever I need a smartphone for (2FA codes, podcasts, Discord, etc.) I can do at home with Wi-Fi. Everything else I can do on a computer. The only thing mildly inconvenient is having to ask people for directions sometimes (which is really only inconvenient for them, because of their embarrassment at not being able to explain how to get to their own house). Overall, it definitely helps with social etiquette and living in the moment. It makes you more in tune with other people. Having to keep a smartphone on you at all times to function is a burden, instead of the other way around. It’s a burden placed on you by corporations and governments.