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While I know it is not significant, me personally as a small developer am no longer going to use any Apple services which can leave me "exposed" and "surrender"

While I know it is not significant, me personally as a small developer am no longer going to use any Apple services which can leave me "exposed" and "surrender" my self to the Almighty Apple. Mostly, and I know I am not alone, that whole fiasco where Apple threatened to shut down Epic users who used Sign-In with Apple (regardless of which side is lying) has completely turned me 180 on that feature, where I am now actively avoiding to implement Sign-In with Apple in my apps. I am quite aware that I am going to lose some users to that decision, I am more than willing to accept it, since that path is too dangerous for me to take after seeing how much power Apple has. I only hope that others will also follow in that decision. Also, I am just waiting patiently for the EU hammer to hit Apple swiftly, it would be about damn time.

dwaite 6y ago
> Mostly, and I know I am not alone, that whole fiasco where Apple threatened to shut down Epic users who used Sign-In with Apple (regardless of which side is lying) has completely turned me 180 on that feature, where I am now actively avoiding to implement Sign-In with Apple in my apps. Keep in mind that this is par for the course with social logins, because they are based on your company having a business agreement with Apple, Google, Facebook, etc - even if it looks like a simple EULA when you sign up, they have the ability to cancel your access, which effectively shuts down access by your customers into your service. SIWA is tied to the developer agreement, so Epic lost access to this when they lost everything else. It sounds like Apple actually gave them an extended (but still quite short) grace period after their developer account was deleted to migrate users off.
- dwaite 6y ago
  To add on: It appears Apple has extended Epic's ability to use SiwA even with their developer account suspended.
- oarsinsync 6y ago
  > SIWA is tied to the developer agreement, so Epic lost access to this when they lost everything else. It sounds like Apple actually gave them an extended (but still quite short) grace period after their developer account was deleted to migrate users off. With my end user hat on, I respectfully disagree. SIWA is tied to my Apple ID, and is my account. Apple has demonstrated it will unilaterally revoke my login on services that has nothing to do with it, thereby significantly reducing the value of SIWA and significantly increasing the risk of using it. I never used social logins before SIWA due to privacy concerns. I now can’t use SIWA either, and need to migrate every service I have using it back to my email. Thanks Apple. You continue to be the abusive partner, taking my money and telling me I should be grateful that you’re not as bad as the other option, all the while restricting and controlling what I’m allowed to do.
  - dwaite 6y ago
    > With my end user hat on, I respectfully disagree. SIWA is tied to my Apple ID, and is my account. From a capability standpoint, I agree. From user perception and resulting corporate liability standpoints, there are problems there. > Apple has demonstrated it will unilaterally revoke my login on services that has nothing to do with it, thereby significantly reducing the value of SIWA and significantly increasing the risk of using it. Apple _only_ allows SiwA with organizations which have an Apple developer account, which has the terms and conditions for appropriate use of user PII. It is certainly valid to put users squarely in charge of who they share their PII to, but that requires a different user experience with appropriate informed consent. The SiwA experience is still about letting Apple share data with partner organizations.
    - oarsinsync 6y ago
      Fortunately, it appears we were both wrong: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2020/09/29/epic-games-unreliable-narrator https://daringfireball.net/linked/2020/09/29/epic-games-unre...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

dwaite 6y ago

> Mostly, and I know I am not alone, that whole fiasco where Apple threatened to shut down Epic users who used Sign-In with Apple (regardless of which side is lying) has completely turned me 180 on that feature, where I am now actively avoiding to implement Sign-In with Apple in my apps. Keep in mind that this is par for the course with social logins, because they are based on your company having a business agreement with Apple, Google, Facebook, etc - even if it looks like a simple EULA when you sign up, they have the ability to cancel your access, which effectively shuts down access by your customers into your service. SIWA is tied to the developer agreement, so Epic lost access to this when they lost everything else. It sounds like Apple actually gave them an extended (but still quite short) grace period after their developer account was deleted to migrate users off.

dwaite 6y ago
To add on: It appears Apple has extended Epic's ability to use SiwA even with their developer account suspended.
oarsinsync 6y ago
> SIWA is tied to the developer agreement, so Epic lost access to this when they lost everything else. It sounds like Apple actually gave them an extended (but still quite short) grace period after their developer account was deleted to migrate users off. With my end user hat on, I respectfully disagree. SIWA is tied to my Apple ID, and is my account. Apple has demonstrated it will unilaterally revoke my login on services that has nothing to do with it, thereby significantly reducing the value of SIWA and significantly increasing the risk of using it. I never used social logins before SIWA due to privacy concerns. I now can’t use SIWA either, and need to migrate every service I have using it back to my email. Thanks Apple. You continue to be the abusive partner, taking my money and telling me I should be grateful that you’re not as bad as the other option, all the while restricting and controlling what I’m allowed to do.
- dwaite 6y ago
  > With my end user hat on, I respectfully disagree. SIWA is tied to my Apple ID, and is my account. From a capability standpoint, I agree. From user perception and resulting corporate liability standpoints, there are problems there. > Apple has demonstrated it will unilaterally revoke my login on services that has nothing to do with it, thereby significantly reducing the value of SIWA and significantly increasing the risk of using it. Apple _only_ allows SiwA with organizations which have an Apple developer account, which has the terms and conditions for appropriate use of user PII. It is certainly valid to put users squarely in charge of who they share their PII to, but that requires a different user experience with appropriate informed consent. The SiwA experience is still about letting Apple share data with partner organizations.
  - oarsinsync 6y ago
    Fortunately, it appears we were both wrong: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2020/09/29/epic-games-unreliable-narrator https://daringfireball.net/linked/2020/09/29/epic-games-unre...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]