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Epic's stance is that Apple is being anti-competitive and monopolistic. Epic knows that they broke the rule and they anticipated that Apple would react to the

Epic's stance is that Apple is being anti-competitive and monopolistic. Epic knows that they broke the rule and they anticipated that Apple would react to the breaking of the rule. What they are trying to prove is that Apple can retaliate against a multi-BILLION dollar corporation in a way that not only hits the bottom line of the corporation, but it also has a negative effect on consumers (because ultimately the breaking of Antitrust laws in the USA revolves mostly around consumer damage, not corporate damage). Epic is making sure that they do everything "right" in the best interest of the consumer, as Apple takes all these various actions against them. So in this case, they are now doing blanket refunds for this game (which by the way is technically a different game than the one that originally violated the rules on iOS). Epic is making sure that they have done the best for the consumer during each of these reactions that Apple has made. Eventually we will see a court case about this where Epic basically shows exactly this. Apple cares more about itself and its' money than the consumers and made these reactions that do not benefit the consumer, but benefit themselves. Meanwhile poor little Epic, the "victim", continued to valiantly do the right thing for consumers while being bullied by scary Apple. Also they want to show the extent that Apple controls Epic's business. Lastly, if a multi-billion dollar corporation like Epic can't take on Apple... what chance does the independent developer have to take on Apple? Everyone must play by Apple's rules or pay the dire consequences for it. This whole cat and mouse game between Apple and Epic is exactly that. Epic is just collecting ammunition right now to eventually convince governments to do something against Apple's dominance.

diminish 6y ago
Awesome reading into everything. It's hard to find such analysis in A$PL related news - as the fanatism of some users seem to be the reason why they do all that evil.
zepto 6y ago
Try telling Steam customers that Epic is doing everything right for consumers.
- dpkonofa 6y ago
  Seriously... the support for Epic here is not only irrational but flat-out misleading.
  - orangecat 6y ago
    It's not support for Epic, it's support for the legal position that they are advancing in this specific case. Lawsuits are not referendums on the overall morality of the litigants.
    - zepto 6y ago
      Most comments here are about the overall morality of the litigants - people are largely supporting Epic because they think Apple’s App Store is immoral.
      - fxtentacle 6y ago
        Yes, I support Epic here because I believe it would be good for users like me if someone limits Apple's power over ios developers. And yes, I consider Apple having that much power immoral.
        zepto 6y ago
        I think you’ll be very very sad if Epic is successful.
        cercatrova 6y ago
        Why?
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
sixstringtheory 6y ago
> if a multi-billion dollar corporation like Epic can't take on Apple... what chance does the independent developer have to take on Apple? Take on in what way? Forcing their hands with sheisty tactics and breaching contract? Plenty of indie devs get by just fine without that bs. > Everyone must play by Apple's rules or pay the dire consequences for it. It’s their platform, and who said anyone _had_ to write iOS apps? This is entitlement.
- mywittyname 6y ago
  You can put anything in a contract, but that doesn't make the contract enforceable. And the way our legal system is set up, you can't challenge the legality of a contract clause without (someone) entering into it.
shadowgovt 6y ago
I've been trying to figure out what Epic's end-game is here. What's the win state for them, besides the court case? I'm trying to wrap my head around how they hope to see the ecosystem change. Epic also owns an app store, so any constraints on what Apple can do in their walled garden constrain what Epic is allowed to do in its walled garden.
paulpan 6y ago
I like your portrayal here, though Epic is acting in their self-interest to maximize their own profits/revenue rather than being the "knight in shiny armor" for consumers everywhere. Apple just happens to be the biggest target and conversely the most opportunity for Epic. A Hunger Games analogy: Epic isn't the one-person Mockingjay but an entire District 13. It will ultimately fail or fight to a stalemate against the might of the Capitol (Apple), unless other Districts (major game studios, or software developers) join in.
- colinmhayes 6y ago
  Who cares what Epic's intentions are? Epic's actions make them a "knight in shiny armor" for me even if that's not the goal.
  - xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
    I think a lot of folks are missing this point. Epic has stumbled onto a vast source of wealth. They don't need to win this, they can afford to lose it. I honestly believe that Sweeney is fed up with the cut big distributors take, and for once has the firepower to make a difference. Look at Unreal licensing, it's extremely developer friendly, they could ask for a cut of all sales easily but instead they aren't greedy. I have no horse in this race but I'd love to see Epic lead the industry to change for the better.
  - hhjinks 6y ago
    Yes. It doesn't matter why the dragon is slain. The damsel in distress is saved regardless.
dpkonofa 6y ago
This entire argument falls flat when Apple just proved to the judge that the majority of its developer market grew as a result of their actions, especially when compared to the opposite happening in other marketplaces. Epic isn't doing this to be altruistic and "the good guy". They're doing this because they want to be able to take advantage of customers 100% as opposed to only 70%.
nodamage 6y ago
> Epic is making sure that they do everything "right" in the best interest of the consumer That's highly debatable. If Epic really had their consumers best interests in mind they would cure the breach and put Fortnite back in the App Store while the lawsuit proceeded, as the judge recommended.
- fxtentacle 6y ago
  I'd say refunding people for a game after they already played it is even more consumer friendly than selling it to them at inflated prices to cover for the app store fees.

diminish 6y ago

Awesome reading into everything. It's hard to find such analysis in A$PL related news - as the fanatism of some users seem to be the reason why they do all that evil.

zepto 6y ago

Try telling Steam customers that Epic is doing everything right for consumers.

dpkonofa 6y ago
Seriously... the support for Epic here is not only irrational but flat-out misleading.
- orangecat 6y ago
  It's not support for Epic, it's support for the legal position that they are advancing in this specific case. Lawsuits are not referendums on the overall morality of the litigants.
  - zepto 6y ago
    Most comments here are about the overall morality of the litigants - people are largely supporting Epic because they think Apple’s App Store is immoral.
    - fxtentacle 6y ago
      Yes, I support Epic here because I believe it would be good for users like me if someone limits Apple's power over ios developers. And yes, I consider Apple having that much power immoral.
      - zepto 6y ago
        I think you’ll be very very sad if Epic is successful.
        cercatrova 6y ago
        Why?
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]

sixstringtheory 6y ago

> if a multi-billion dollar corporation like Epic can't take on Apple... what chance does the independent developer have to take on Apple? Take on in what way? Forcing their hands with sheisty tactics and breaching contract? Plenty of indie devs get by just fine without that bs. > Everyone must play by Apple's rules or pay the dire consequences for it. It’s their platform, and who said anyone _had_ to write iOS apps? This is entitlement.

mywittyname 6y ago
You can put anything in a contract, but that doesn't make the contract enforceable. And the way our legal system is set up, you can't challenge the legality of a contract clause without (someone) entering into it.

shadowgovt 6y ago

I've been trying to figure out what Epic's end-game is here. What's the win state for them, besides the court case? I'm trying to wrap my head around how they hope to see the ecosystem change. Epic also owns an app store, so any constraints on what Apple can do in their walled garden constrain what Epic is allowed to do in its walled garden.

paulpan 6y ago

I like your portrayal here, though Epic is acting in their self-interest to maximize their own profits/revenue rather than being the "knight in shiny armor" for consumers everywhere. Apple just happens to be the biggest target and conversely the most opportunity for Epic. A Hunger Games analogy: Epic isn't the one-person Mockingjay but an entire District 13. It will ultimately fail or fight to a stalemate against the might of the Capitol (Apple), unless other Districts (major game studios, or software developers) join in.

colinmhayes 6y ago
Who cares what Epic's intentions are? Epic's actions make them a "knight in shiny armor" for me even if that's not the goal.
- xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
  I think a lot of folks are missing this point. Epic has stumbled onto a vast source of wealth. They don't need to win this, they can afford to lose it. I honestly believe that Sweeney is fed up with the cut big distributors take, and for once has the firepower to make a difference. Look at Unreal licensing, it's extremely developer friendly, they could ask for a cut of all sales easily but instead they aren't greedy. I have no horse in this race but I'd love to see Epic lead the industry to change for the better.
- hhjinks 6y ago
  Yes. It doesn't matter why the dragon is slain. The damsel in distress is saved regardless.

dpkonofa 6y ago

This entire argument falls flat when Apple just proved to the judge that the majority of its developer market grew as a result of their actions, especially when compared to the opposite happening in other marketplaces. Epic isn't doing this to be altruistic and "the good guy". They're doing this because they want to be able to take advantage of customers 100% as opposed to only 70%.

nodamage 6y ago

> Epic is making sure that they do everything "right" in the best interest of the consumer That's highly debatable. If Epic really had their consumers best interests in mind they would cure the breach and put Fortnite back in the App Store while the lawsuit proceeded, as the judge recommended.

fxtentacle 6y ago
I'd say refunding people for a game after they already played it is even more consumer friendly than selling it to them at inflated prices to cover for the app store fees.