5 ms·

unfortunately and to shatter your dreams, as mine were, it is and has always been: octopuses* tis mixage of greik and latin eytymologies and wyll not bey allo

by Cro_on 6y ago

unfortunately and to shatter your dreams, as mine were, it is and has always been: octopuses* tis mixage of greik and latin eytymologies and wyll not bey allowed by the way is your dad thomas pynchon?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
bgun 6y ago
Languages, especially English, are democracies - if enough people say octopi, it eventually will be (and may already be) octopi.
- LolWolf 6y ago
  > Languages [...] are democracies I think the French would like to have a word! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Académie_Française https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Académie_Française (On the other hand, rules aren't binding, so it's more like a "will of the people (if the people's will is large enough)"?)
  - jakevoytko 6y ago
    I took a French class last year, and the teacher spent a lot of time identifying differences between academy French and how people actually talk. Things like "Je ne sais pas" => "Chais pas," which sounded like "shay pa." It seemed like the people still had a lot to say about how French should unofficially be written and spoken, even if it couldn't be used in formal settings.
    - MayeulC 6y ago
      Well, thus is, strictly speaking, the difference between "I don't know' and "I dunno". Speakers know this is a colloquial saying. There might be a few areas where official bodies are lagging behind usage ("postuler à" being one I have in mind), but I'd say that grammar nazis and teachers alike are actually somewhat effective IMO.
      - simlevesque 6y ago
        > "postuler à" Today I learned that I used it "wrong" all my life.
        MayeulC 6y ago
        I know, right? Languagetool brought it to my attention the other day. "postuler" == "to candidate" seems absent from the dictionary, though it's in common use. http://www.academie-francaise.fr/postuler-postuler-pour http://www.academie-francaise.fr/postuler-postuler-pour
      - jacobr1 6y ago
        > but I'd say that grammar nazis and teachers alike are actually somewhat effective IMO. We have no evidence this is true. Certainly historically we know it isn't the case, there very strong evidence surrounding how languages drift over time that exist alongside contemporary pendants later proving to have not made a difference. But we also haven't really had a society with near universal literacy before so maybe that changes the dynamic.
    - samradelie 6y ago
      That's neat the teacher brought up the 'tiers' of formality. As an american kid in France growing up, the 'vous-voyez' was instilled early on along with evaluations over the years in written and oral style. You probably remember 'liaisons'? It's as though in the same way a vowel at the beginning of a word causes the last consonant of the previous word to be pronounced, as familiarity increases and formality decreases, the words themselves begin to blend. Somewhere between your examples there'd be "j'ne sais pas" and then if your a high school kid in 2005, "Saich aps"
  - qchris 6y ago
    According to my one semester intro course, this is referred to in linguistics as either a "prescriptive" or "descriptive" approach to language. As I think you alluded to, while the prescriptive approach defines people's attitudes regarding how certain approaches to the language are viewed ("this is right/wrong"), it rarely ends up actually changing how the language(s) themselves get used and develop.
  - samatman 6y ago
    The French verlan is a prime demonstration that, in point of fact, King Canute cannot stop the tide from turning.
aqme28 6y ago
By that logic shouldn't it be octopodes? That way we're consistently greek.
- Cro_on 6y ago
  yes, they are almost the same the greek d was actually a hard th sound iirc, Δελτα being pronounced 'thelta' as opposed to 'delta'. hopefully that clarifies (and is actually accurate) how octopuses and octopodes are connected
- alteria 6y ago
  Yes. I volunteered at an aquarium for several years, and we spent a surprising amount of time learning octopus etymology. It was a top 10 question for adults to ask.
  - jfk13 6y ago
    Octopus entomology? I think you meant etymology.
    - Falling3 6y ago
      Octopus entomology sounds a lot more interesting
    - alteria 6y ago
      Yes, whoops!
    - jtolmar 6y ago
      You have to admit though, octopus entomology /would/ be surprising.
reaperducer 6y ago
octopuses Like "Vaxen?"
- userbinator 6y ago
  Octopaxen.
picodguyo 6y ago
"The Oxford English Dictionary lists octopi, octopuses and octopodes (in that order)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plural_form_of_words_ending_in_-us https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plural_form_of_words_ending_in...
- DanBC 6y ago
  Does it? octopus (ˈɒktəpəs, ɒkˈtəʊpəs)Pl. octopodes (ɒkˈtəʊpədiːz), anglicized octopuses.[mod.L. octōpus, a. Gr. ὀκτώπους, acc. ὀκτώποδ-α eight-footed, f. ὀκτώ eight + πούς, πόδ- foot.] octopus A genus of cephalopod molluscs, characterized by eight `arms' surrounding the mouth and provided with suckers; an individual of this genus (esp. one of the larger and more formidable species). 1758: Baker in Phil. Trans. L. 778 “The Polypus, particularly so called, the Octopus, Preke, or Pour-contrel.” 1835: Kirby Hab. & Inst. Anim. I. x. 308 “The body of the octopus is small, it has legs sometimes a foot and a half in length, with about two hundred and forty suckers on each leg.” 1880: Browning Pietro of Abano 401 “Help! The old magician clings like an octopus!” 1884: H. M. Leathes Rough Notes Nat. Hist. 46 “Saying that enormous octopuses existed on the western side of Panama, in the Pacific Ocean.” octopus b. fig.; usually applied to an organized power having extended ramifications and far-reaching influence, esp. harmful or destructive. 1882: Greg Misc. Ess. ii. 37 “We are the very octopus of nations.” 1893: Boston (Mass.) Jrnl. 25 Mar. 2/1 “The electric octopus. Formal organization of the New England Street Railway Company.” 1894: Westm. Gaz. 12 Mar. 2/1 “He was an administrative octopus, a cormorant of toil.” octopus c. attrib. and Comb. 1880: G. Meredith Tragic Com. (1881) 206 “Then they laid octopus-limbs on her.” 1894: Outing (U.S.) XXIV. 460/1 “An octopus power sought to tear the human limpet from its clinging place.” 1898: P. Manson Trop. Diseases i. 9 “A strange-looking octopus-like creature.”
- Cro_on 6y ago
  Person with Volume X (Moul-Ovum) of the second edition OED in front of them here.. a simple reply to this would be that in no dictionary 'pu' comes before 'po' :) granted, octopodes comes under the heading of octopus, as it's plural, so it is technically after. but following the loose nature of the quote in hand, it is also in fact true that octopi comes before octopuses, it just so happens to be attached to the full word 'octopian' - suggestive of an octopus
Anon4Now 6y ago
I don't know, but I kind of like "i" being the plural of "us". It makes all my decisions seem unanimous.
- thunderbong 6y ago
  Shouldn't that be unanimi?
  - chrisweekly 6y ago
    unanimoi? (pronounced "yew-nan-i-mwa" as in French "me") ;)
  - blnqr 6y ago
    unanimata
- toolslive 6y ago
  sometimes the plural of a word ending on 'us' ends on 'i'. Sometimes it does not. Even if the origin is Latin, it varies (lupus vs fructus). However when borrowing words from another language, things become interesting and subject to ignorance and fashion (not necessarily in that order). Pro tip: Pizza Pepperoni (Italy vs US)

by Cro_on 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

bgun 6y ago

Languages, especially English, are democracies - if enough people say octopi, it eventually will be (and may already be) octopi.

LolWolf 6y ago
> Languages [...] are democracies I think the French would like to have a word! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Académie_Française https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Académie_Française (On the other hand, rules aren't binding, so it's more like a "will of the people (if the people's will is large enough)"?)
- jakevoytko 6y ago
  I took a French class last year, and the teacher spent a lot of time identifying differences between academy French and how people actually talk. Things like "Je ne sais pas" => "Chais pas," which sounded like "shay pa." It seemed like the people still had a lot to say about how French should unofficially be written and spoken, even if it couldn't be used in formal settings.
  - MayeulC 6y ago
    Well, thus is, strictly speaking, the difference between "I don't know' and "I dunno". Speakers know this is a colloquial saying. There might be a few areas where official bodies are lagging behind usage ("postuler à" being one I have in mind), but I'd say that grammar nazis and teachers alike are actually somewhat effective IMO.
    - simlevesque 6y ago
      > "postuler à" Today I learned that I used it "wrong" all my life.
      - MayeulC 6y ago
        I know, right? Languagetool brought it to my attention the other day. "postuler" == "to candidate" seems absent from the dictionary, though it's in common use. http://www.academie-francaise.fr/postuler-postuler-pour http://www.academie-francaise.fr/postuler-postuler-pour
    - jacobr1 6y ago
      > but I'd say that grammar nazis and teachers alike are actually somewhat effective IMO. We have no evidence this is true. Certainly historically we know it isn't the case, there very strong evidence surrounding how languages drift over time that exist alongside contemporary pendants later proving to have not made a difference. But we also haven't really had a society with near universal literacy before so maybe that changes the dynamic.
  - samradelie 6y ago
    That's neat the teacher brought up the 'tiers' of formality. As an american kid in France growing up, the 'vous-voyez' was instilled early on along with evaluations over the years in written and oral style. You probably remember 'liaisons'? It's as though in the same way a vowel at the beginning of a word causes the last consonant of the previous word to be pronounced, as familiarity increases and formality decreases, the words themselves begin to blend. Somewhere between your examples there'd be "j'ne sais pas" and then if your a high school kid in 2005, "Saich aps"
- qchris 6y ago
  According to my one semester intro course, this is referred to in linguistics as either a "prescriptive" or "descriptive" approach to language. As I think you alluded to, while the prescriptive approach defines people's attitudes regarding how certain approaches to the language are viewed ("this is right/wrong"), it rarely ends up actually changing how the language(s) themselves get used and develop.
- samatman 6y ago
  The French verlan is a prime demonstration that, in point of fact, King Canute cannot stop the tide from turning.

aqme28 6y ago

By that logic shouldn't it be octopodes? That way we're consistently greek.

Cro_on 6y ago
yes, they are almost the same the greek d was actually a hard th sound iirc, Δελτα being pronounced 'thelta' as opposed to 'delta'. hopefully that clarifies (and is actually accurate) how octopuses and octopodes are connected
alteria 6y ago
Yes. I volunteered at an aquarium for several years, and we spent a surprising amount of time learning octopus etymology. It was a top 10 question for adults to ask.
- jfk13 6y ago
  Octopus entomology? I think you meant etymology.
  - Falling3 6y ago
    Octopus entomology sounds a lot more interesting
  - alteria 6y ago
    Yes, whoops!
  - jtolmar 6y ago
    You have to admit though, octopus entomology /would/ be surprising.

reaperducer 6y ago

octopuses Like "Vaxen?"

userbinator 6y ago
Octopaxen.

picodguyo 6y ago

"The Oxford English Dictionary lists octopi, octopuses and octopodes (in that order)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plural_form_of_words_ending_in_-us https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plural_form_of_words_ending_in...

DanBC 6y ago
Does it? octopus (ˈɒktəpəs, ɒkˈtəʊpəs)Pl. octopodes (ɒkˈtəʊpədiːz), anglicized octopuses.[mod.L. octōpus, a. Gr. ὀκτώπους, acc. ὀκτώποδ-α eight-footed, f. ὀκτώ eight + πούς, πόδ- foot.] octopus A genus of cephalopod molluscs, characterized by eight `arms' surrounding the mouth and provided with suckers; an individual of this genus (esp. one of the larger and more formidable species). 1758: Baker in Phil. Trans. L. 778 “The Polypus, particularly so called, the Octopus, Preke, or Pour-contrel.” 1835: Kirby Hab. & Inst. Anim. I. x. 308 “The body of the octopus is small, it has legs sometimes a foot and a half in length, with about two hundred and forty suckers on each leg.” 1880: Browning Pietro of Abano 401 “Help! The old magician clings like an octopus!” 1884: H. M. Leathes Rough Notes Nat. Hist. 46 “Saying that enormous octopuses existed on the western side of Panama, in the Pacific Ocean.” octopus b. fig.; usually applied to an organized power having extended ramifications and far-reaching influence, esp. harmful or destructive. 1882: Greg Misc. Ess. ii. 37 “We are the very octopus of nations.” 1893: Boston (Mass.) Jrnl. 25 Mar. 2/1 “The electric octopus. Formal organization of the New England Street Railway Company.” 1894: Westm. Gaz. 12 Mar. 2/1 “He was an administrative octopus, a cormorant of toil.” octopus c. attrib. and Comb. 1880: G. Meredith Tragic Com. (1881) 206 “Then they laid octopus-limbs on her.” 1894: Outing (U.S.) XXIV. 460/1 “An octopus power sought to tear the human limpet from its clinging place.” 1898: P. Manson Trop. Diseases i. 9 “A strange-looking octopus-like creature.”
Cro_on 6y ago
Person with Volume X (Moul-Ovum) of the second edition OED in front of them here.. a simple reply to this would be that in no dictionary 'pu' comes before 'po' :) granted, octopodes comes under the heading of octopus, as it's plural, so it is technically after. but following the loose nature of the quote in hand, it is also in fact true that octopi comes before octopuses, it just so happens to be attached to the full word 'octopian' - suggestive of an octopus

Anon4Now 6y ago

I don't know, but I kind of like "i" being the plural of "us". It makes all my decisions seem unanimous.

thunderbong 6y ago
Shouldn't that be unanimi?
- chrisweekly 6y ago
  unanimoi? (pronounced "yew-nan-i-mwa" as in French "me") ;)
- blnqr 6y ago
  unanimata
toolslive 6y ago
sometimes the plural of a word ending on 'us' ends on 'i'. Sometimes it does not. Even if the origin is Latin, it varies (lupus vs fructus). However when borrowing words from another language, things become interesting and subject to ignorance and fashion (not necessarily in that order). Pro tip: Pizza Pepperoni (Italy vs US)