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I find this amusing as this is an inherently human emotional evaluation. Perhaps that is not the point in the grand scheme of things? Octopuses have survived f

I find this amusing as this is an inherently human emotional evaluation. Perhaps that is not the point in the grand scheme of things? Octopuses have survived for 500+ millions of years and I would say more intelligent and peaceful than humans who 'ruled' or savaged their own species for... what benefit actually?

Natsu 6y ago
I'm not sure about the 'peaceful' claim, that seems to me to be something of a romanticism. It's called the 'law of the jungle' for a reason, after all, e.g. - https://www.livescience.com/47982-octopus-cannibalism-video-captured.html https://www.livescience.com/47982-octopus-cannibalism-video-... But I think it's true that human intelligence has made us have a greater impact on the world, both for good and for evil.
r3trohack3r 6y ago
A viable chance at getting off this rock. 500+ million years is a blink of an eye on a cosmic scale. Humans are the only species we’ve observed that has a viable chance or surviving on cosmic time scales; and we will likely bring other life along with us for that ride. Short of another human-equivalent species evolving, or a hyper resilient organism that can piggy back on space debris, humans are literally the only shot life on Earth has.
- mindfulplay 6y ago
  Why does that matter? Why are humans so special? I 'feel' like octopuses are the better candidate :) putting aside trivial human aspirations....
  - r3trohack3r 6y ago
    When they successfully escape earths orbit, get back to me. Until then, all odds are stacked against them. They’re going to go extinct in an instant on a cosmic timescale. Unless, of course, humans choose to bring them along and save them from that fate.
    - jbay808 6y ago
      I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but it's interesting to me that in our many hundred thousand year history as a species, the "point" of our intelligence (by your measure) wasn't even a suggestion until maybe 120 years ago, and only a dream until maybe 60 years ago. What are the chances? Perhaps a scholar in 320 AD would also have been surprised by how remarkable it was that the true purpose of human intelligence had only been so recently discovered.
      - r3trohack3r 6y ago
        Bingo. This is the chasm that needs to be crossed. Its not just the immediate advantage your species gets from intelligence. It’s cultivating that to a point where you realize all life on this planet is default extinct. Then getting your species to the point where you even have a _chance_ of changing that default. Humans are still default extinct. We are on a path to changing that default.
        hooande 6y ago
        to follow up on the point above, how do you know that leaving earth is the only way to escape extinction? that's only what you can imagine given the technology available, just like someone living in 320 couldn't conceive of space travel. I agree that the ultimate purpose of any species is to continue to exist. I'm just skeptical because your definition of that is so related to modern science fiction
        chrisco255 6y ago
        I mean eventually the sun will lose energy and hell, a planet destroying asteroid could hit at any time.
        ancientworldnow 6y ago
        No we're not, at best we're just changing the timeline. You're still either time bound by the death of the universe best case scenario or resource bound before that happens (if the universe can "end"). Extinction is inevitable at any timescale.
  - squidlogic 6y ago
    One response from the Christian tradition is that humans are creatures made in the image of God with rational, moral, and spiritual faculties. Other animals lack these faculties. Furthermore, we are decreed to be stewards over the created order by divine command.
    - hyper_reality 6y ago
      Christianity decrees its followers to be stewards over the created order, but outside of some small groups, there's no major tradition of vegetarianism in Christianity, nor any particular care for ecology and sustainability as is practiced in many other religions.
      - UncleOxidant 6y ago
        Because stewardship of the earth got translated into dominion over it and that became the dominant narrative in a dominant branch of Christianity in most of the world (Evangelicalism).
- stainforth 6y ago
  Dinosaurs perished to become oil to power our technology, they deserve some credit.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    It was mostly the plant species alive in that time, not dinosaurs per se.
- cgrealy 6y ago
  > 500+ million years is a blink of an eye on a cosmic scale. How so? It’s 1/8 of the lifespan of the planet and about 3.5% of the age of the universe. That is not “a blink of an eye”, that’s a pretty impressive innings by any definition. Humans will be lucky if we make 1 million years at this rate.
  - bpizzi 6y ago
    Well, according to the Big Freeze theory (seems to be the most probable) 500 million years is less than a blink of an eye when compared to the time the universe will consume until it cannot anymore.
- riffic 6y ago
  > viable chance or surviving on cosmic time scales how incredibly arrogant.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    I would prefer ambitious.
  - cellis 6y ago
    Arrogant is a tremendous understatement. There's a chance that 10 million years ago on some other planet existed a far more advanced civilization than humans could ever imagine, but they died out after 1 million years. So they would have had 1 million years of advancement, which is still 50 times more advancement than the 2000 or so years of scientific progress we've had, and even that would be but a tiny tiny tiny fraction of a blink of an eye in space and time. To think that "humans have a viable chance of surviving cosmic time" is incredulous if you know even rudimentary physics.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Natsu 6y ago

I'm not sure about the 'peaceful' claim, that seems to me to be something of a romanticism. It's called the 'law of the jungle' for a reason, after all, e.g. - https://www.livescience.com/47982-octopus-cannibalism-video-captured.html https://www.livescience.com/47982-octopus-cannibalism-video-... But I think it's true that human intelligence has made us have a greater impact on the world, both for good and for evil.

r3trohack3r 6y ago

A viable chance at getting off this rock. 500+ million years is a blink of an eye on a cosmic scale. Humans are the only species we’ve observed that has a viable chance or surviving on cosmic time scales; and we will likely bring other life along with us for that ride. Short of another human-equivalent species evolving, or a hyper resilient organism that can piggy back on space debris, humans are literally the only shot life on Earth has.

mindfulplay 6y ago
Why does that matter? Why are humans so special? I 'feel' like octopuses are the better candidate :) putting aside trivial human aspirations....
- r3trohack3r 6y ago
  When they successfully escape earths orbit, get back to me. Until then, all odds are stacked against them. They’re going to go extinct in an instant on a cosmic timescale. Unless, of course, humans choose to bring them along and save them from that fate.
  - jbay808 6y ago
    I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but it's interesting to me that in our many hundred thousand year history as a species, the "point" of our intelligence (by your measure) wasn't even a suggestion until maybe 120 years ago, and only a dream until maybe 60 years ago. What are the chances? Perhaps a scholar in 320 AD would also have been surprised by how remarkable it was that the true purpose of human intelligence had only been so recently discovered.
    - r3trohack3r 6y ago
      Bingo. This is the chasm that needs to be crossed. Its not just the immediate advantage your species gets from intelligence. It’s cultivating that to a point where you realize all life on this planet is default extinct. Then getting your species to the point where you even have a _chance_ of changing that default. Humans are still default extinct. We are on a path to changing that default.
      - hooande 6y ago
        to follow up on the point above, how do you know that leaving earth is the only way to escape extinction? that's only what you can imagine given the technology available, just like someone living in 320 couldn't conceive of space travel. I agree that the ultimate purpose of any species is to continue to exist. I'm just skeptical because your definition of that is so related to modern science fiction
        chrisco255 6y ago
        I mean eventually the sun will lose energy and hell, a planet destroying asteroid could hit at any time.
      - ancientworldnow 6y ago
        No we're not, at best we're just changing the timeline. You're still either time bound by the death of the universe best case scenario or resource bound before that happens (if the universe can "end"). Extinction is inevitable at any timescale.
- squidlogic 6y ago
  One response from the Christian tradition is that humans are creatures made in the image of God with rational, moral, and spiritual faculties. Other animals lack these faculties. Furthermore, we are decreed to be stewards over the created order by divine command.
  - hyper_reality 6y ago
    Christianity decrees its followers to be stewards over the created order, but outside of some small groups, there's no major tradition of vegetarianism in Christianity, nor any particular care for ecology and sustainability as is practiced in many other religions.
    - UncleOxidant 6y ago
      Because stewardship of the earth got translated into dominion over it and that became the dominant narrative in a dominant branch of Christianity in most of the world (Evangelicalism).
stainforth 6y ago
Dinosaurs perished to become oil to power our technology, they deserve some credit.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  It was mostly the plant species alive in that time, not dinosaurs per se.
cgrealy 6y ago
> 500+ million years is a blink of an eye on a cosmic scale. How so? It’s 1/8 of the lifespan of the planet and about 3.5% of the age of the universe. That is not “a blink of an eye”, that’s a pretty impressive innings by any definition. Humans will be lucky if we make 1 million years at this rate.
- bpizzi 6y ago
  Well, according to the Big Freeze theory (seems to be the most probable) 500 million years is less than a blink of an eye when compared to the time the universe will consume until it cannot anymore.
riffic 6y ago
> viable chance or surviving on cosmic time scales how incredibly arrogant.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  I would prefer ambitious.
- cellis 6y ago
  Arrogant is a tremendous understatement. There's a chance that 10 million years ago on some other planet existed a far more advanced civilization than humans could ever imagine, but they died out after 1 million years. So they would have had 1 million years of advancement, which is still 50 times more advancement than the 2000 or so years of scientific progress we've had, and even that would be but a tiny tiny tiny fraction of a blink of an eye in space and time. To think that "humans have a viable chance of surviving cosmic time" is incredulous if you know even rudimentary physics.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]