4 ms·

I think his point about latency is a big one. I suspect a lot of the problems with videochat (and VR) has to do with this. Bad latency is frustrating and wear

I think his point about latency is a big one. I suspect a lot of the problems with videochat (and VR) has to do with this. Bad latency is frustrating and wears you down, at some point it's not worth attempting to speak up because it's tiring to deal with. In real life communication transitions between people are fast and you can overlap a bit. VR could solve the issue of what people are looking at least which I think is the other issue, though I'm not sure how well avatars will fit in for that.

timleewards 6y ago
Chatvr seems to have plenty of “players” - in the millions actually. Premature optimisation is not ideal, and a delay in the tens of ms is not unheard of in regular chat apps either. I mean how many live on a 10 Mbps home connection with high latency yet they make perfectly fine calls.
- fossuser 6y ago
  The full quote of that premature optimization trope is this: "We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the time: premature optimization is the root of all evil. Yet we should not pass up our opportunities in that critical 3%" People often ignore that second half. > "I mean how many live on a 10 Mbps home connection with high latency yet they make perfectly fine calls." I'm not sure I agree with 'perfectly fine', people just suffer through things being terrible because they don't know they could be better. Latency on a 1:1 call is bad, but tolerable - things get a lot worse as you move towards group interaction (dealing with group video chats often because of covid it's clear how much worse this is than in a real life room). It's not premature optimization to get the latency down when that's probably the most critical feature tied to usable performance and better experience, arguably everything else should be lower priority.
  - timleewards 6y ago
    We may have experienced different kinds of latency but in my experience i havent noticed much of an issue when using chat vr. I may be biased as i am keen on vr going mainstream and looking back at the times of dialup i cant help but wonder what would happened if we waited for fiber optic before using the internet, because it was laggy. So it may suck for a while but its just fine - no worse than a laggy skype call 5 years ago.
deleted 6y ago
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dylan-m 6y ago
Spatial audio is also a huge thing for conferences. If you want a good virtual conference experience, you need a hallway track - for the meaningful conversations which happen outside of sessions. And there are some noble attempts but it's really hard to replicate that in a system where everyone is speaking through the same pipe. So, add a 3d space with spatial audio, and it's natural to form groups. Add really good spatial audio, and the system can handle the different unconscious movements we do to pick up snippets of activity around us and figure out which conversations we want to be closer to. (You still can't replicate the free food, though, so it's probably doomed anyway, but it's worth exploring). His bit about how you can't really control volume in that kind of experience was really interesting to me.

timleewards 6y ago

Chatvr seems to have plenty of “players” - in the millions actually. Premature optimisation is not ideal, and a delay in the tens of ms is not unheard of in regular chat apps either. I mean how many live on a 10 Mbps home connection with high latency yet they make perfectly fine calls.

fossuser 6y ago
The full quote of that premature optimization trope is this: "We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the time: premature optimization is the root of all evil. Yet we should not pass up our opportunities in that critical 3%" People often ignore that second half. > "I mean how many live on a 10 Mbps home connection with high latency yet they make perfectly fine calls." I'm not sure I agree with 'perfectly fine', people just suffer through things being terrible because they don't know they could be better. Latency on a 1:1 call is bad, but tolerable - things get a lot worse as you move towards group interaction (dealing with group video chats often because of covid it's clear how much worse this is than in a real life room). It's not premature optimization to get the latency down when that's probably the most critical feature tied to usable performance and better experience, arguably everything else should be lower priority.
- timleewards 6y ago
  We may have experienced different kinds of latency but in my experience i havent noticed much of an issue when using chat vr. I may be biased as i am keen on vr going mainstream and looking back at the times of dialup i cant help but wonder what would happened if we waited for fiber optic before using the internet, because it was laggy. So it may suck for a while but its just fine - no worse than a laggy skype call 5 years ago.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

dylan-m 6y ago

Spatial audio is also a huge thing for conferences. If you want a good virtual conference experience, you need a hallway track - for the meaningful conversations which happen outside of sessions. And there are some noble attempts but it's really hard to replicate that in a system where everyone is speaking through the same pipe. So, add a 3d space with spatial audio, and it's natural to form groups. Add really good spatial audio, and the system can handle the different unconscious movements we do to pick up snippets of activity around us and figure out which conversations we want to be closer to. (You still can't replicate the free food, though, so it's probably doomed anyway, but it's worth exploring). His bit about how you can't really control volume in that kind of experience was really interesting to me.