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People and groups with strongly held beliefs are not the most affected by algorithms, as you are pointing out. Worst case scenario is that their echo chamber be

by messo 6y ago

People and groups with strongly held beliefs are not the most affected by algorithms, as you are pointing out. Worst case scenario is that their echo chamber becomes less impenetrable or that they become even more extreme. Algorithms does most damage to people not currently holding any strong beliefs about any given topic, but do have some wage leanings one way or another. These people can be swung and their views amplified and radicalized without much effort or financial input, as the film The Great Hack makes a good case for. Google, Youtube, Facebook and Twitter (who all offers fine-grained ad targeting) can be weaponized to push "normal" people towards the extreme, and pit groups against each other and affect democratic processes in a big way. This was Cambridge Analytica's business model, and it worked really well.

knobcore 6y ago
I think a lot of people confuse the appearance of a lack of strong beliefs with simple social filtering. There is no social filtering on the web because you don't have to worry about your reputation. The thing that people try the hardest to stop from happening to themselves is social isolation and being an outcast. People will lie all the time just to get along with the crowd. You wouldn't know people with strongly held beliefs, unless you found out what they had in their library. It's just the filters are removed and laid bare for the whole society to see, and it's ugly and it always has been. "In 1981, former Republican Party strategist Lee Atwater, when giving an anonymous interview discussing Nixon's Southern Strategy, said:[28][29][30] You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968, you can't say "nigger" – that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now, you're talking about cutting taxes. And all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me – because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."[31]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics)
- messo 6y ago
  This is a great point. At the same time I observe a night and day difference in how some people close to me behaved before and after they had access to Facebook and Youtube. Pre-social media I could have a long and rather nuanced discussion on controversial topics, and we both left the conversation with slightly altered opinions and some new perspectives. Today, all nuance is gone and the conversation is scattered all over the place, spiced up with whatever conspiracy theory they "discovered" on Youtube lately. Maybe one of the effects of algorithms has been to push people to extremes to such a degree that social filtering is discarded? People I know seem to be almost apologetic in their approach, as if their life depend on convincing people about their views and to not care about the social consequences of constantly "preaching". This form of polarization is not healthy – basic respect for other people is lessened and listening to counter arguments is considered a weakness. This is just an anecdote from my life. From what I read and hear from others, this experience is not unique.

by messo 6y ago

knobcore 6y ago

I think a lot of people confuse the appearance of a lack of strong beliefs with simple social filtering. There is no social filtering on the web because you don't have to worry about your reputation. The thing that people try the hardest to stop from happening to themselves is social isolation and being an outcast. People will lie all the time just to get along with the crowd. You wouldn't know people with strongly held beliefs, unless you found out what they had in their library. It's just the filters are removed and laid bare for the whole society to see, and it's ugly and it always has been. "In 1981, former Republican Party strategist Lee Atwater, when giving an anonymous interview discussing Nixon's Southern Strategy, said:[28][29][30] You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968, you can't say "nigger" – that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now, you're talking about cutting taxes. And all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me – because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."[31]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics)

messo 6y ago
This is a great point. At the same time I observe a night and day difference in how some people close to me behaved before and after they had access to Facebook and Youtube. Pre-social media I could have a long and rather nuanced discussion on controversial topics, and we both left the conversation with slightly altered opinions and some new perspectives. Today, all nuance is gone and the conversation is scattered all over the place, spiced up with whatever conspiracy theory they "discovered" on Youtube lately. Maybe one of the effects of algorithms has been to push people to extremes to such a degree that social filtering is discarded? People I know seem to be almost apologetic in their approach, as if their life depend on convincing people about their views and to not care about the social consequences of constantly "preaching". This form of polarization is not healthy – basic respect for other people is lessened and listening to counter arguments is considered a weakness. This is just an anecdote from my life. From what I read and hear from others, this experience is not unique.