4 ms·

Can anything operate freely in China? (No) it shouldn’t be the aspiration of the US to emulate an authoritarian state.

cwhiz 6y ago
The entire democratic world should take this exact same approach toward China. Democratic nations have free markets and free trade agreements. If China wants to be an isolationist with their own internal economy and their own internal corporations, that is fine. But then they should not also be able to participate in global trade with other free market economies. We're not emulating China, we're reciprocating their behavior exclusively with regard to China. We don't ban German, Japanese, Korean, or companies from other nations from operating in the US, do we? No.
- angio 6y ago
  China is not banning foreign companies from operating in China, in fact for many it's their second or third biggest market.
  - drchopchop 6y ago
    Sure, Nike can sell them shoes, but anything which involves free expression is certainly not welcome. So, in practice, many technology and social media companies are effectively banned.
  - bananabreakfast 6y ago
    Yes, they are? Facebook, google, youtube, uber, twitter, goddamn wikipedia etc...
    - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
      Uber is not banned from China. They had a large business in China, but they faced strong competition from Didi. They ended up selling their operations to Didi in exchange for a stake in the Didi. The companies that are banned in China are the companies that do not agree to censor political content. That's where you get Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc. not being able to operate in China. Western companies have a massive presence in China - far greater than the presence that Chinese companies have in the West. The top three auto brands in China are Volkswagen, Honda and Toyota. China is the world's 2nd largest aviation market, and Boeing and Airbus dominate the Chinese market. American restaurants, such as Starbucks, McDonald's and KFC, are everywhere in China. Chinese malls are filled with American, European and Japanese brands. Up until the trade war began, most Chinese people strongly preferred foreign brands like Apple - though I think this is changing, due to the hounding of companies like Huawei and TikTok by the US government. The strange thing is that most Westerners believe that China shuts out foreign companies, and it's difficult to even begin to express just how wrong that impression is. China's development was driven by foreign capital - to a large extent meaning foreign companies entering China either to manufacture there or to sell to Chinese consumers. As a result, foreign companies have a huge presence in China.
- AniseAbyss 6y ago
  The CCP priority has never been capitalism or the free market. It has always been China. They allowed foreign companies in the 90s to operate in China but in partnership with the Chinese thus foreign companies were literally training their own future replacement. Foreign companies only saw short term $€¥ signs as always. Fast forward to today and there is very little Chinese market left for foreign companies to conquer. I find it difficult to hate the Chinese for not repeating the mistakes of the 19th century and playing it smart.
anonymousab 6y ago
It seems very much like an international-scale market version of 'tolerance of intolerance'.

The entire democratic world should take this exact same approach toward China. Democratic nations have free markets and free trade agreements. If China wants to be an isolationist with their own internal economy and their own internal corporations, that is fine. But then they should not also be able to participate in global trade with other free market economies. We're not emulating China, we're reciprocating their behavior exclusively with regard to China. We don't ban German, Japanese, Korean, or companies from other nations from operating in the US, do we? No.

angio 6y ago
China is not banning foreign companies from operating in China, in fact for many it's their second or third biggest market.
- drchopchop 6y ago
  Sure, Nike can sell them shoes, but anything which involves free expression is certainly not welcome. So, in practice, many technology and social media companies are effectively banned.
- bananabreakfast 6y ago
  Yes, they are? Facebook, google, youtube, uber, twitter, goddamn wikipedia etc...
  - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
    Uber is not banned from China. They had a large business in China, but they faced strong competition from Didi. They ended up selling their operations to Didi in exchange for a stake in the Didi. The companies that are banned in China are the companies that do not agree to censor political content. That's where you get Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc. not being able to operate in China. Western companies have a massive presence in China - far greater than the presence that Chinese companies have in the West. The top three auto brands in China are Volkswagen, Honda and Toyota. China is the world's 2nd largest aviation market, and Boeing and Airbus dominate the Chinese market. American restaurants, such as Starbucks, McDonald's and KFC, are everywhere in China. Chinese malls are filled with American, European and Japanese brands. Up until the trade war began, most Chinese people strongly preferred foreign brands like Apple - though I think this is changing, due to the hounding of companies like Huawei and TikTok by the US government. The strange thing is that most Westerners believe that China shuts out foreign companies, and it's difficult to even begin to express just how wrong that impression is. China's development was driven by foreign capital - to a large extent meaning foreign companies entering China either to manufacture there or to sell to Chinese consumers. As a result, foreign companies have a huge presence in China.
AniseAbyss 6y ago
The CCP priority has never been capitalism or the free market. It has always been China. They allowed foreign companies in the 90s to operate in China but in partnership with the Chinese thus foreign companies were literally training their own future replacement. Foreign companies only saw short term $€¥ signs as always. Fast forward to today and there is very little Chinese market left for foreign companies to conquer. I find it difficult to hate the Chinese for not repeating the mistakes of the 19th century and playing it smart.

anonymousab 6y ago

It seems very much like an international-scale market version of 'tolerance of intolerance'.