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Its not even that, Pompeo already talked about a quasi US version of the great firewall called the Clean network. Its kinda weird seeing the US being afraid of

Its not even that, Pompeo already talked about a quasi US version of the great firewall called the Clean network. Its kinda weird seeing the US being afraid of competition. Kinda had hoped that the scenario Kai Fu Lee wrote about in his book "AI superpowers" wouldn't happen that the tech world would bifurcate into the East vs the West.

ericmay 6y ago
Eh I don’t think the US is afraid of competition, but what competition exactly? Chinese companies can freely operate in the US, but American companies can’t freely operate in China? Obviously that isn’t going to go on forever. None of this would be happening if Facebook, Twitter, Google, etc. we’re allowed to operate in China like TikTok is/was allowed to operate in the US.
- angio 6y ago
  Chinese companies can operate in America as long as they follow American laws, likewise American companies can operate in China as long as they follow Chinese laws. Since America is a freer society that China, it follows that Chinese companies are more free to operate in America. The solution is obviously not to make America less free, but that's the path they've been going down for the past 20 years so no big surprise. If the American government were concerned about their citizens privacy they would have passed stricter privacy regulations and only then banned companies that didn't comply.
  - ericmay 6y ago
    > Chinese companies can operate in America as long as they follow American laws, likewise American companies can operate in China as long as they follow Chinese laws. Are you sure? What law does Youtube and Twitter need to follow to be allowed to operate in China? > The solution is obviously not to make America less free I don't view banning TikTok and WeChat as making America less free. We can just make our own. And we're only doing this to China and it's deserved. > If the American government were concerned about their citizens privacy they would have passed stricter privacy regulations and only then banned companies that didn't comply. Well, that's the wrong phrasing. If American citizens were concerned they would make their government pass stricter privacy regulations. But I don't believe that this is mutually exclusive to also banning Chinese companies due to other reasons as highlighted above.
    - sneak 6y ago
      > I don't view banning TikTok and WeChat as making America less free. We can just make our own. And we're only doing this to China and it's deserved. If an American on US soil wants to watch videos on TikTok, and the American government says "sorry, we've decided you can't view that, contrary to your own wishes" then Americans are less free. PS: "China" isn't a person and you shouldn't personify groups of millions of people.
      - tannedNerd 6y ago
        They probably should have used CCP but it’s pretty clear they are talking about the Chinese government and not Chinese people. America isn’t a person but you had no problem with its use?
    - angio 6y ago
      > Are you sure? What law does Youtube and Twitter need to follow to be allowed to operate in China? They need to start censoring content based on the Chinese government direction. That's what Microsoft, Apple are doing. > I don't view banning TikTok and WeChat as making America less free. We can just make our own. And we're only doing this to China and it's deserved. The government arbitrarily deciding what you can and cannot run on your smartphone is a limitation of your freedom. > But I don't believe that this is mutually exclusive to also banning Chinese companies due to other reasons as highlighted above. The official reason is that these two apps are spying on US citizens, so stricter privacy laws would prevent them (and other popular apps like FB, Google, Twitter, etc. so it would be an even bigger win for the people) from doing so.
      - ericmay 6y ago
        > The government arbitrarily deciding what you can and cannot run on your smartphone is a limitation of your freedom. The government arbitrarily deciding I can't pour smoke into the air is a limitation of my freedom too. I can't buy a grenade launcher? Limitation of my freedom.
        6y ago
- DarthGhandi 6y ago
  > American companies can’t freely operate in China McDonald's, Nike, Boeing, Microsoft, P&G, General Electric (to name just a few) all hold dominant market share in China. I have no idea why people constantly repeat this claim so easily debunked. US companies are everywhere in the country and making billions.
  - ericmay 6y ago
    Because we're clearly talking about tech companies and social media companies.
    - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
      The US trade relationship with China is much larger than social media companies (Apple, Micron, Qualcomm and plenty of other tech companies have no problem in China - what we're talking about here are media companiesm not tech companies in general). By focusing only on media companies, people in this conversation are getting a very narrow and distorted view of the US-China trade relationship. The US does very well, business-wise, in China, contrary to what most Americans seem to believe.
      - ericmay 6y ago
        Sure, how do you define does very well in China?
        DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
        Many US companies have made huge returns on investment in China, and China is a major market for many American companies. This is a tech forum, so we can go down a list of US tech companies, giving their 2017 revenue from China: * Apple: $45 billion (20% of Apple's total) * Intel: $15 billion (its largest market, 24% of total) * Qualcomm: $15 billion (>60% of Qualcomm's total) * Micron: $10 billion (>50% of Micron's total) * Broadcom: $9 billion (>50 of Broadcom's total) * Cisco: $8 billion (15% of Cisco's total) The list goes on and on, but you get the picture. The numbers come from here: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trade-war-watch-these-are-the-us-companies-with-the-most-at-stake-in-china-2018-03-29 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trade-war-watch-these-are-...
stjohnswarts 6y ago
I think that's not what's going on here. I think it's one of two things: 1. USA has real intel on China harvesting data to Chinese servers on WeChat and TikTOk and they're filing it away for combing through for weakpoints like blackmail, potential dissidents, contacts in the USA to compromise. 2. Trump is just mad at China and it's a way to get a lot of publicity to show he's tough on them (while meekly staying hushed about Russian interference) I think both are equally likely.

ericmay 6y ago

Eh I don’t think the US is afraid of competition, but what competition exactly? Chinese companies can freely operate in the US, but American companies can’t freely operate in China? Obviously that isn’t going to go on forever. None of this would be happening if Facebook, Twitter, Google, etc. we’re allowed to operate in China like TikTok is/was allowed to operate in the US.

angio 6y ago
Chinese companies can operate in America as long as they follow American laws, likewise American companies can operate in China as long as they follow Chinese laws. Since America is a freer society that China, it follows that Chinese companies are more free to operate in America. The solution is obviously not to make America less free, but that's the path they've been going down for the past 20 years so no big surprise. If the American government were concerned about their citizens privacy they would have passed stricter privacy regulations and only then banned companies that didn't comply.
- ericmay 6y ago
  > Chinese companies can operate in America as long as they follow American laws, likewise American companies can operate in China as long as they follow Chinese laws. Are you sure? What law does Youtube and Twitter need to follow to be allowed to operate in China? > The solution is obviously not to make America less free I don't view banning TikTok and WeChat as making America less free. We can just make our own. And we're only doing this to China and it's deserved. > If the American government were concerned about their citizens privacy they would have passed stricter privacy regulations and only then banned companies that didn't comply. Well, that's the wrong phrasing. If American citizens were concerned they would make their government pass stricter privacy regulations. But I don't believe that this is mutually exclusive to also banning Chinese companies due to other reasons as highlighted above.
  - sneak 6y ago
    > I don't view banning TikTok and WeChat as making America less free. We can just make our own. And we're only doing this to China and it's deserved. If an American on US soil wants to watch videos on TikTok, and the American government says "sorry, we've decided you can't view that, contrary to your own wishes" then Americans are less free. PS: "China" isn't a person and you shouldn't personify groups of millions of people.
    - tannedNerd 6y ago
      They probably should have used CCP but it’s pretty clear they are talking about the Chinese government and not Chinese people. America isn’t a person but you had no problem with its use?
  - angio 6y ago
    > Are you sure? What law does Youtube and Twitter need to follow to be allowed to operate in China? They need to start censoring content based on the Chinese government direction. That's what Microsoft, Apple are doing. > I don't view banning TikTok and WeChat as making America less free. We can just make our own. And we're only doing this to China and it's deserved. The government arbitrarily deciding what you can and cannot run on your smartphone is a limitation of your freedom. > But I don't believe that this is mutually exclusive to also banning Chinese companies due to other reasons as highlighted above. The official reason is that these two apps are spying on US citizens, so stricter privacy laws would prevent them (and other popular apps like FB, Google, Twitter, etc. so it would be an even bigger win for the people) from doing so.
    - ericmay 6y ago
      > The government arbitrarily deciding what you can and cannot run on your smartphone is a limitation of your freedom. The government arbitrarily deciding I can't pour smoke into the air is a limitation of my freedom too. I can't buy a grenade launcher? Limitation of my freedom.
      - 6y ago
DarthGhandi 6y ago
> American companies can’t freely operate in China McDonald's, Nike, Boeing, Microsoft, P&G, General Electric (to name just a few) all hold dominant market share in China. I have no idea why people constantly repeat this claim so easily debunked. US companies are everywhere in the country and making billions.
- ericmay 6y ago
  Because we're clearly talking about tech companies and social media companies.
  - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
    The US trade relationship with China is much larger than social media companies (Apple, Micron, Qualcomm and plenty of other tech companies have no problem in China - what we're talking about here are media companiesm not tech companies in general). By focusing only on media companies, people in this conversation are getting a very narrow and distorted view of the US-China trade relationship. The US does very well, business-wise, in China, contrary to what most Americans seem to believe.
    - ericmay 6y ago
      Sure, how do you define does very well in China?
      - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
        Many US companies have made huge returns on investment in China, and China is a major market for many American companies. This is a tech forum, so we can go down a list of US tech companies, giving their 2017 revenue from China: * Apple: $45 billion (20% of Apple's total) * Intel: $15 billion (its largest market, 24% of total) * Qualcomm: $15 billion (>60% of Qualcomm's total) * Micron: $10 billion (>50% of Micron's total) * Broadcom: $9 billion (>50 of Broadcom's total) * Cisco: $8 billion (15% of Cisco's total) The list goes on and on, but you get the picture. The numbers come from here: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trade-war-watch-these-are-the-us-companies-with-the-most-at-stake-in-china-2018-03-29 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trade-war-watch-these-are-...

stjohnswarts 6y ago

I think that's not what's going on here. I think it's one of two things: 1. USA has real intel on China harvesting data to Chinese servers on WeChat and TikTOk and they're filing it away for combing through for weakpoints like blackmail, potential dissidents, contacts in the USA to compromise. 2. Trump is just mad at China and it's a way to get a lot of publicity to show he's tough on them (while meekly staying hushed about Russian interference) I think both are equally likely.