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Why are you expecting something other than incremental from Apple (or others)? We are all standing on the shoulders of giants. Everything is synthesis. Nothi

Why are you expecting something other than incremental from Apple (or others)? We are all standing on the shoulders of giants. Everything is synthesis. Nothing is original. Everything is incremental. Iteration is everything.

luckylion 6y ago
There's a difference in innovative quality between releasing the first iphone and the next iteration of the iphone. There's a similar difference between building the first PC and building an improved version of the first PC.
hans1729 6y ago
Thats just straight up reductionism. You can describe every progress as an iteration, but obviously some steps are much bigger than others, the prime example being the iPhone. Some company-cultures enable or incentivize innovation, others don't. Apples entire branding is about "revolutionizing [area]", therefore one expects them to do more than the stuff everyone else gets done
- shawnz 6y ago
  It's normal for huge innovations like that to only come around once in a blue moon even in companies that foster it. That's nothing new.
  - hans1729 6y ago
    Sure, yet still we're right to expect more from a company fostering innovation than from one that doesn't, no? Because that was the original question
    - shawnz 6y ago
      I don't think so. There was no claim that other companies are out-innovating Apple, only that Apple is not innovating fast enough for their opinion of how fast Apple should be innovating.
ineedasername 6y ago
People expect more from Apple because Appled used to do more than small incremental changes. For a while Apple was coming out with products on a regular basis that redefined the industry, changing or increasing both consumers and the entire industry's focus. I don't consider things like the "camera notch" to be in that class of product development. Sure, everyone stands on the shoulders of giants, but not everyone is a giant. For a little while though, Apple was. Now I look at things like the Oculus Quest, which has gone a long way towards democratizing VR, and wonder "Where is Apple? Why aren't they here?" Their prior track record had them revolutionizing such things with an uncanny ability to understand UX at the same time that they dumped a ton of upgrades on their products compared to competitors. Sure, I guess if you break down each individual thing they did, then each one is incremental. But what we came to expect from Apple was that they'd release products with so many of those things that they changed the entire industry. Now we get a bezel that's 0.3mm smaller, the addition of an "ultra wide" camera lens, and a sprinkling of OS changes.
- pwinnski 6y ago
  > For a while Apple was coming out with products on a regular basis that redefined the industry That sentence is carrying quite a heavy load! Can you list some Apple products you consider redefining, and what year they were released? It seems like the strongest cases are for "they are still doing that," or "they've done that literally four times ever, in 30+ years," so I'm curious how your list differs from either of mine.
  - labcomputer 6y ago
    Here's mine: 1. The original Macintosh, 1984 (desktop metaphor GUI for the masses) 2. Newton, 1993 (the original PDA, but not commercially successful--so "redefined the industry" is arguable) 3. The iMac, 1997 (industrial design matters for computers. You could argue SGI got there first, but PCs didn't notice until the iMac) 4. iPod/iTunes, 2001/2003 (capacitive-touch interfaces, buying music online) 5. iPhone, 2007 (too many things to list) 6. Apple Watch, 2015 (the Right Stuff to make smart watches popular) 7. FaceID, 2017 (depth-sensitive facial recognition that is actually secure)

luckylion 6y ago

There's a difference in innovative quality between releasing the first iphone and the next iteration of the iphone. There's a similar difference between building the first PC and building an improved version of the first PC.

hans1729 6y ago

Thats just straight up reductionism. You can describe every progress as an iteration, but obviously some steps are much bigger than others, the prime example being the iPhone. Some company-cultures enable or incentivize innovation, others don't. Apples entire branding is about "revolutionizing [area]", therefore one expects them to do more than the stuff everyone else gets done

shawnz 6y ago
It's normal for huge innovations like that to only come around once in a blue moon even in companies that foster it. That's nothing new.
- hans1729 6y ago
  Sure, yet still we're right to expect more from a company fostering innovation than from one that doesn't, no? Because that was the original question
  - shawnz 6y ago
    I don't think so. There was no claim that other companies are out-innovating Apple, only that Apple is not innovating fast enough for their opinion of how fast Apple should be innovating.

ineedasername 6y ago

People expect more from Apple because Appled used to do more than small incremental changes. For a while Apple was coming out with products on a regular basis that redefined the industry, changing or increasing both consumers and the entire industry's focus. I don't consider things like the "camera notch" to be in that class of product development. Sure, everyone stands on the shoulders of giants, but not everyone is a giant. For a little while though, Apple was. Now I look at things like the Oculus Quest, which has gone a long way towards democratizing VR, and wonder "Where is Apple? Why aren't they here?" Their prior track record had them revolutionizing such things with an uncanny ability to understand UX at the same time that they dumped a ton of upgrades on their products compared to competitors. Sure, I guess if you break down each individual thing they did, then each one is incremental. But what we came to expect from Apple was that they'd release products with so many of those things that they changed the entire industry. Now we get a bezel that's 0.3mm smaller, the addition of an "ultra wide" camera lens, and a sprinkling of OS changes.

pwinnski 6y ago
> For a while Apple was coming out with products on a regular basis that redefined the industry That sentence is carrying quite a heavy load! Can you list some Apple products you consider redefining, and what year they were released? It seems like the strongest cases are for "they are still doing that," or "they've done that literally four times ever, in 30+ years," so I'm curious how your list differs from either of mine.
- labcomputer 6y ago
  Here's mine: 1. The original Macintosh, 1984 (desktop metaphor GUI for the masses) 2. Newton, 1993 (the original PDA, but not commercially successful--so "redefined the industry" is arguable) 3. The iMac, 1997 (industrial design matters for computers. You could argue SGI got there first, but PCs didn't notice until the iMac) 4. iPod/iTunes, 2001/2003 (capacitive-touch interfaces, buying music online) 5. iPhone, 2007 (too many things to list) 6. Apple Watch, 2015 (the Right Stuff to make smart watches popular) 7. FaceID, 2017 (depth-sensitive facial recognition that is actually secure)