4 ms·

Viewing Google cache, I noticed ub.com about us page: All financial transactions are processed by Hoop & Javelin Holdings Ltd., Vincenti Buildings, Suite 522,

by j79 16y ago

Viewing Google cache, I noticed ub.com about us page: All financial transactions are processed by Hoop & Javelin Holdings Ltd., Vincenti Buildings, Suite 522, 14/19 Strait Street, VLT1432 Valletta, Malta, owner of this website. Can the FBI seize the domain because it's a .com TLD? Or, because transactions were occurring in the States?

bjonathan 16y ago
it's happening quite often that big poker sites have some of their funds confiscated. Usually they dont communicate about it and just change the payment provider they use to collect US money.
nika 16y ago
The DHS (and now FBI) believes that all .com domain names are "located in the USA". It is not hard to get a judge (generally they are pretty ignorant of technology) to go along with this. Therefore, even if the registrar and the company are overseas, the FBI is able to sieze the domains. Since I doubt the US government will start respecting international law (and ICAAN is international agreements, to which the US government has agreed) the only solution to this will be a viable alternative DNS system. This is a serious threat to any startup... even though you're not engaged in gambling, they are constantly expanding the "crimes" they will use to sieze domains.
- thailandstartup 16y ago
  I wonder long before they're shutting down foreign .com sites for the 'crime' of infringing US patents. Having only a .com for a business feels a lot like having all your eggs in one basket now.
- tankenmate 16y ago
  No, it's not that the DOJ believes that all .com domains are US. It is because Verisign has the contract to run .com, and Verisign is a US company. An US court can force an US company to comply.
vnorby 16y ago
They shouldn't be able to seize them at all. No transactions were occurring in the US, which (at least by the poker sites' arguments) makes them legal businesses.
cdr 16y ago
They can (in the "they have the capability to" sense of can) because it's a US-controlled TLD. They've being doing seizures like this for about a year with smaller fry. They don't a care a bit if a site is entirely foreign-owned and entirely legal in the country of ownership.
gst 16y ago
Up until now for all of those seizures that I've checked the registrar has always been located in the US. In such a case I understand that the domain name falls under US laws. However, in this case it is a little bit unclear: The "ub.com" domain itself has been registered with an UK based registrar, but the nameservers point to a US company (UltraDNS). Still, from the evidence available it seems that the US directly tampered with the data at the registry (VeriSign): * According to the UK registrar's WHOIS information the responsible nameserver for the domain is at UltraDNS. * UltraDNS seems to return the 'correct' results. * When asking the .com nameservers for the ub.com nameservers, they return two nameservers at cirfu.net. * cirfu.net leads to the web page with the seizure information. So yes, it seems that the FBI can indeed size any .com domain, even though it has been registered with a registrar outside of the US. If I'd be a company not based in the US now would be the time where I'd think about migrating to another TLD - I guess for online gamling sites even .ly domains would be a better bet than .com.
- kelnos 15y ago
  The retail registrar is irrelevant. Many of the generic TLDs are owned and managed by US companies, so the US government at least believes they have jurisdiction. And since a company like Verisign isn't going to piss off the US government, they'll gladly hand over domains when asked.

by j79 16y ago

bjonathan 16y ago

it's happening quite often that big poker sites have some of their funds confiscated. Usually they dont communicate about it and just change the payment provider they use to collect US money.

nika 16y ago

The DHS (and now FBI) believes that all .com domain names are "located in the USA". It is not hard to get a judge (generally they are pretty ignorant of technology) to go along with this. Therefore, even if the registrar and the company are overseas, the FBI is able to sieze the domains. Since I doubt the US government will start respecting international law (and ICAAN is international agreements, to which the US government has agreed) the only solution to this will be a viable alternative DNS system. This is a serious threat to any startup... even though you're not engaged in gambling, they are constantly expanding the "crimes" they will use to sieze domains.

thailandstartup 16y ago
I wonder long before they're shutting down foreign .com sites for the 'crime' of infringing US patents. Having only a .com for a business feels a lot like having all your eggs in one basket now.
tankenmate 16y ago
No, it's not that the DOJ believes that all .com domains are US. It is because Verisign has the contract to run .com, and Verisign is a US company. An US court can force an US company to comply.

vnorby 16y ago

They shouldn't be able to seize them at all. No transactions were occurring in the US, which (at least by the poker sites' arguments) makes them legal businesses.

cdr 16y ago

They can (in the "they have the capability to" sense of can) because it's a US-controlled TLD. They've being doing seizures like this for about a year with smaller fry. They don't a care a bit if a site is entirely foreign-owned and entirely legal in the country of ownership.

gst 16y ago

Up until now for all of those seizures that I've checked the registrar has always been located in the US. In such a case I understand that the domain name falls under US laws. However, in this case it is a little bit unclear: The "ub.com" domain itself has been registered with an UK based registrar, but the nameservers point to a US company (UltraDNS). Still, from the evidence available it seems that the US directly tampered with the data at the registry (VeriSign): * According to the UK registrar's WHOIS information the responsible nameserver for the domain is at UltraDNS. * UltraDNS seems to return the 'correct' results. * When asking the .com nameservers for the ub.com nameservers, they return two nameservers at cirfu.net. * cirfu.net leads to the web page with the seizure information. So yes, it seems that the FBI can indeed size any .com domain, even though it has been registered with a registrar outside of the US. If I'd be a company not based in the US now would be the time where I'd think about migrating to another TLD - I guess for online gamling sites even .ly domains would be a better bet than .com.

kelnos 15y ago
The retail registrar is irrelevant. Many of the generic TLDs are owned and managed by US companies, so the US government at least believes they have jurisdiction. And since a company like Verisign isn't going to piss off the US government, they'll gladly hand over domains when asked.