4 ms·
Zinn's own words (which are quoted in the article) confirm the parent's point: From that moment on, I was no longer a liberal, a believer in the self-correctin
by trentnix 6y ago
Zinn's own words (which are quoted in the article) confirm the parent's point:
From that moment on, I was no longer a liberal, a believer in the self-correcting character of American democracy. I was a radical, believing that something fundamental was wrong in this country . . . something rotten at the root. The situation required not just a new president or new laws, but an uprooting of the old order, the introduction of a new kind of society—cooperative, peaceful, egalitarian.
- jolux 6y agoSaying that America has deeply rooted problems is not pessimism, it's realism. Not believing in people's ability to make it better is pessimism.
- trentnix 6y agoAnd in that quote, Zinn explicitly mentions he doesn’t believe in “people’s ability to make it better”: I was no longer a liberal, a believer in the self-correcting character of American democracy
- jolux 6y agoYou're misreading him. He's talking about the ability of an ideology and a system to correct itself, not that of the people it rules to choose a different society for themselves.
- trentnix 6y agoHe is saying a revolution is required because the people can’t change things. I’m not sure, short of outright nihilism, how one could be more pessimistic that that.
- ImprobableTruth 6y agoHe's literally saying that he believes that American democracy is fundamentally flawed and that it can't be fixed, therefore necessitating a revolution.
- jolux 6y agoHe said it's not self-correcting, meaning people have to take charge to build the country that they need and want. That's not the same as saying it can't be fixed.
- rayiner 6y agoNo, he says he doesn’t believe in the “self-correcting character of American Democracy.” That doesn’t just mean that people need to fix it, it means he thinks they need to operate outside the Democratic process to fix it.
- jolux 6y agoYou're overfocusing on the "American Democracy" part and missing what he means about self-correction. Being an active and engaged citizen does mean being engaged beyond the ballot box. What specifically do you believe he was advocating that you find immoral or distasteful?
- ImprobableTruth 6y ago>He said it's not self-correcting, meaning people have to take charge to build the country that they need and want. Yeah, and he believes that this has to happen through a revolution, because the democratic system can't fix itself _even if the people vote and try to change laws to do so_. >That's not the same as saying it can't be fixed. Maybe you call tearing down a system and replacing it wither another 'fixing', but I (and likely most others) certainly don't. At the very least, it's a hell of a lot more pessimistic than reformism.
- jolux 6y agoReform and revolution are a false dichotomy. Social movements and popular unrest effect the electoral process significantly.