4 ms·

See but those articles are about ketogenic diets, not "Carnivore". Ketogenic diets don't have to be meat centric.

jononomo 6y ago
You're right that ketogenic diets don't have to be meat-centric. This is why I promote the carnivore diet and not the ketogenic diet. Not all of the resources I pointed you to are about ketogenic diets, though -- some are about carnivore diets. For instance, there are the books of Vilhjalmur Stefansson who lived for years on a meat-only diet and was monitored at Harvard while on this diet. Nina Teicholz also provides a phenomenal tour of the literature and demonstrates that a lot of the science does in fact support a carnivore diet. You should look up some of her phenomenal lectures on YouTube, or read her book The Big Fat Surprise: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy/dp/1451624433/ https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy/dp/14... If you would like to contribute to getting more research done on the carnivore diet, then you can donate here: https://www.gofundme.com/f/carnivore-research https://www.gofundme.com/f/carnivore-research
- bird_monster 6y ago
  I appreciate your desire to evangelize a thing you believe in. I am not really asking about the benefit of a ketogenic diet, I am asking specifically about the ways in which a Carnivore diet increases the benefits of ketosis as opposed to just a normal Ketogenic diet. The book you linked seemed to be in advocacy of dietary fat, which both Ketogenic and Carnivore diets both agree with. That is again not really what I'm asking. I'm also not really sure why I would donate money to a cause I do not believe in/that is not backed by science.
  - jononomo 6y ago
    The carnivore diet is not necessarily a ketogenic diet, although it is an extremely low-carb diet. However, the carnivore diet gives you all the benefits of ketosis and a lot more. The problem with plant-based foods is that they contain fiber and a bunch of anti-nutrients but the ketogenic diet permits this. Once you cut out all plant-based food then you experience the wonders of an elimination diet -- because you have eliminated anything in your food that you might have a mild allergy or reaction to. Things I noticed when I went carnivore were: improved skin, improved nasal breathing, cessation of heartburn, improved bowel movements, dramatically fewer bowel movements, weight loss and muscle growth, a complete cessation of farting/gas, more ear wax, less joint pain, less water weight (because no carbohydrates), more stable energy and mood, and probably a couple more things I've forgotten. It is true that there are not a lot of studies that have been performed on the carnivore diet. But beware that human nutrition is almost impossibly difficult to do large randomized controlled trials on. This is simply an extraordinarily difficult area in which to get the science right, which is why the US dietary guidelines are such a bunch of crap and we've ended up with an obesity epidemic and chronic diseases such as diabetes and heart disease absolutely rampant. There is one way in which you can perform elite nutrition science, however -- you can experiment on yourself. I urge you to try a carnivore diet for six weeks and just observe the results. Stick to steak, eggs, sardines, fish, bone broth, beef liver, and ground beef. Avoid dairy and don't drink any calories. This is an extraordinarily difficult diet for people to follow for some reason (because they are carb addicts) but it is nutritionally overflowing and you will see dramatic effects if you stick to it.
    - bird_monster 6y ago
      > The carnivore diet is not necessarily a ketogenic diet, although it is an extremely low-carb diet. However, the carnivore diet gives you all the benefits of ketosis and a lot more. I am asking you to support this claim with science-based research, that explicitly studies the differences. The rest of your post is mostly just noise if that research isn't readily available. I am more than aware of the troubles of doing legitimate scientific research at scale on diet. And yet, you yourself were able to provide scholarly articles on the benefits of a Ketogenic diet. I have done both carnivore and generalized ketogenic diets in the past. I am also an extreme skeptic at fad diets like the Carnivore diet. I've yet to see a single piece of legitimate evidence to suggest that the Carnivore diet is anything more than a Joe Rogan-backed ketogenic diet.
      - jononomo 6y ago
        Can't you just try the diet and see for yourself? That would be a lot more reliable way to determine the effects of the diet on your health than waiting around for decades for research that may not ever be properly conducted and which in any case would have been conducted on someone else. If you try the carnivore diet then you can just see the results for yourself in yourself. What's the downside to eating nothing but eggs, sardines, and ground beef for six weeks?
        bird_monster 6y ago
        From my post: > I have done both carnivore and generalized ketogenic diets in the past. > What's the downside to eating nothing but eggs, sardines, and ground beef for six weeks? Probably wasting six weeks of my life eating an unnecessary and suboptimal diet, for starters.

You're right that ketogenic diets don't have to be meat-centric. This is why I promote the carnivore diet and not the ketogenic diet. Not all of the resources I pointed you to are about ketogenic diets, though -- some are about carnivore diets. For instance, there are the books of Vilhjalmur Stefansson who lived for years on a meat-only diet and was monitored at Harvard while on this diet. Nina Teicholz also provides a phenomenal tour of the literature and demonstrates that a lot of the science does in fact support a carnivore diet. You should look up some of her phenomenal lectures on YouTube, or read her book The Big Fat Surprise: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy/dp/1451624433/ https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy/dp/14... If you would like to contribute to getting more research done on the carnivore diet, then you can donate here: https://www.gofundme.com/f/carnivore-research https://www.gofundme.com/f/carnivore-research

bird_monster 6y ago
I appreciate your desire to evangelize a thing you believe in. I am not really asking about the benefit of a ketogenic diet, I am asking specifically about the ways in which a Carnivore diet increases the benefits of ketosis as opposed to just a normal Ketogenic diet. The book you linked seemed to be in advocacy of dietary fat, which both Ketogenic and Carnivore diets both agree with. That is again not really what I'm asking. I'm also not really sure why I would donate money to a cause I do not believe in/that is not backed by science.
- jononomo 6y ago
  The carnivore diet is not necessarily a ketogenic diet, although it is an extremely low-carb diet. However, the carnivore diet gives you all the benefits of ketosis and a lot more. The problem with plant-based foods is that they contain fiber and a bunch of anti-nutrients but the ketogenic diet permits this. Once you cut out all plant-based food then you experience the wonders of an elimination diet -- because you have eliminated anything in your food that you might have a mild allergy or reaction to. Things I noticed when I went carnivore were: improved skin, improved nasal breathing, cessation of heartburn, improved bowel movements, dramatically fewer bowel movements, weight loss and muscle growth, a complete cessation of farting/gas, more ear wax, less joint pain, less water weight (because no carbohydrates), more stable energy and mood, and probably a couple more things I've forgotten. It is true that there are not a lot of studies that have been performed on the carnivore diet. But beware that human nutrition is almost impossibly difficult to do large randomized controlled trials on. This is simply an extraordinarily difficult area in which to get the science right, which is why the US dietary guidelines are such a bunch of crap and we've ended up with an obesity epidemic and chronic diseases such as diabetes and heart disease absolutely rampant. There is one way in which you can perform elite nutrition science, however -- you can experiment on yourself. I urge you to try a carnivore diet for six weeks and just observe the results. Stick to steak, eggs, sardines, fish, bone broth, beef liver, and ground beef. Avoid dairy and don't drink any calories. This is an extraordinarily difficult diet for people to follow for some reason (because they are carb addicts) but it is nutritionally overflowing and you will see dramatic effects if you stick to it.
  - bird_monster 6y ago
    > The carnivore diet is not necessarily a ketogenic diet, although it is an extremely low-carb diet. However, the carnivore diet gives you all the benefits of ketosis and a lot more. I am asking you to support this claim with science-based research, that explicitly studies the differences. The rest of your post is mostly just noise if that research isn't readily available. I am more than aware of the troubles of doing legitimate scientific research at scale on diet. And yet, you yourself were able to provide scholarly articles on the benefits of a Ketogenic diet. I have done both carnivore and generalized ketogenic diets in the past. I am also an extreme skeptic at fad diets like the Carnivore diet. I've yet to see a single piece of legitimate evidence to suggest that the Carnivore diet is anything more than a Joe Rogan-backed ketogenic diet.
    - jononomo 6y ago
      Can't you just try the diet and see for yourself? That would be a lot more reliable way to determine the effects of the diet on your health than waiting around for decades for research that may not ever be properly conducted and which in any case would have been conducted on someone else. If you try the carnivore diet then you can just see the results for yourself in yourself. What's the downside to eating nothing but eggs, sardines, and ground beef for six weeks?
      - bird_monster 6y ago
        From my post: > I have done both carnivore and generalized ketogenic diets in the past. > What's the downside to eating nothing but eggs, sardines, and ground beef for six weeks? Probably wasting six weeks of my life eating an unnecessary and suboptimal diet, for starters.