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Free Speech Union is a right-wing libertarian think tank headed by Toby Young, who has a bit of a reputation for being a clown. A good summary here: https://www

Free Speech Union is a right-wing libertarian think tank headed by Toby Young, who has a bit of a reputation for being a clown. A good summary here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv_kUE6t7n8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv_kUE6t7n8

nickff 6y ago
I have no idea who Toby Young is, but why describe FSU as "right-wing libertarian"? Are they just normal libertarians? The vast majority of libertarians do not self-identify as being 'right-wing'.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > but why describe FSU as "right-wing libertarian"? I would guess, from everything I've seen about Young and the FSU, because it is. > Are they just normal libertarians? Well, right-libertarians are a common subset of normal libertarians (in the US, most—but not remotely all—who identify as libertarians are right-libertarians, non-right libertarians are more likely to identify differently, but I don't think that that soft tendency applies to the UK, at least in the same degree.) So, sure in one sense they are “normal libertarians” but not representative of the broader group, AFAICT. > The vast majority of libertarians do not self-identify as being 'right-wing'. So? The FSU is not the vast majority of libertarians, and descriptions of someone's policy position can be independent of their self-identification. A Nazi doesn't become a moderate just because they self identify as “moderate”.
  - s0l1dsnak3123 6y ago
    Eloquently put, thank you. I happen to be a left-wing libertarian - when it comes to preference for utopian projects that is - and that informs my opinion of "the general direction things should go in", if you like. I like to make the distinction between left and right-wing libertarianism wherever possible. When you look up on Wikipedia, you'll even find that "libertarianism originated as a form of left-wing politics such as anti-authoritarian and anti-state socialists like anarchists, especially social anarchists, but more generally libertarian communists/Marxists and libertarian socialists." Another quick search, and you'll find that: > Right-libertarianism, also known as libertarian capitalism or right-wing libertarianism, is a political philosophy and type of libertarianism that supports capitalist property rights and defends market distribution of natural resources and private property. The term right-libertarianism is used to distinguish this class of views on the nature of property and capital from left-libertarianism, a type of libertarianism that combines self-ownership with an egalitarian approach to natural resources. In contrast to socialist libertarianism, right-libertarianism supports free-market capitalism. Like most forms of libertarianism, it supports civil liberties, especially natural law, negative rights and a major reversal of the modern welfare state. So I do think it's right to make the distinction between left-wing and right-wing libertarianism.
  - unishark 6y ago
    My understanding of the major libertarian groups in the US is that they side with the left on social issues like culture war, abortion, and secularism. They side with the right on economic issues like free markets. They like to make a 2D political compass to explain this difference. Insisting on placing them on an extreme on a 1D axis seems like an insistence on speaking in half-truths. At least they should be placed near the center yes. People tend to do this when they focus on narrow issues and ignore the rest. E.g. to someone who only cares about opposing gun control, a centrist who supports it is on the left in their eyes.
- DanBC 6y ago
  US context, unsurprisingly, isn't applicable to the UK. In the UK a bunch of people self-describe as libertarian, but are described by just about everyone else as right wing. Toby Young is a cunt and I hope he dies[1] a slow and painful death and he's definitely on what the UK would describe as the right. [1] People may think this is a bit strong but he has repeatedly called for eugenics, so what's good for the goose.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > US context, unsurprisingly, isn't applicable to the UK. Generally true, but... > In the UK a bunch of people self-describe as libertarian, but are described by just about everyone else as right wing. ...that's also true of the US.
  - Consultant32452 6y ago
    In the US eugenics is primarily around aborting fetuses with birth defects and making abortion cheap and easy for the poor. In NY more black babies are aborted than are born. It's primarily a leftist idea. What is Toby promoting?

nickff 6y ago

I have no idea who Toby Young is, but why describe FSU as "right-wing libertarian"? Are they just normal libertarians? The vast majority of libertarians do not self-identify as being 'right-wing'.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> but why describe FSU as "right-wing libertarian"? I would guess, from everything I've seen about Young and the FSU, because it is. > Are they just normal libertarians? Well, right-libertarians are a common subset of normal libertarians (in the US, most—but not remotely all—who identify as libertarians are right-libertarians, non-right libertarians are more likely to identify differently, but I don't think that that soft tendency applies to the UK, at least in the same degree.) So, sure in one sense they are “normal libertarians” but not representative of the broader group, AFAICT. > The vast majority of libertarians do not self-identify as being 'right-wing'. So? The FSU is not the vast majority of libertarians, and descriptions of someone's policy position can be independent of their self-identification. A Nazi doesn't become a moderate just because they self identify as “moderate”.
- s0l1dsnak3123 6y ago
  Eloquently put, thank you. I happen to be a left-wing libertarian - when it comes to preference for utopian projects that is - and that informs my opinion of "the general direction things should go in", if you like. I like to make the distinction between left and right-wing libertarianism wherever possible. When you look up on Wikipedia, you'll even find that "libertarianism originated as a form of left-wing politics such as anti-authoritarian and anti-state socialists like anarchists, especially social anarchists, but more generally libertarian communists/Marxists and libertarian socialists." Another quick search, and you'll find that: > Right-libertarianism, also known as libertarian capitalism or right-wing libertarianism, is a political philosophy and type of libertarianism that supports capitalist property rights and defends market distribution of natural resources and private property. The term right-libertarianism is used to distinguish this class of views on the nature of property and capital from left-libertarianism, a type of libertarianism that combines self-ownership with an egalitarian approach to natural resources. In contrast to socialist libertarianism, right-libertarianism supports free-market capitalism. Like most forms of libertarianism, it supports civil liberties, especially natural law, negative rights and a major reversal of the modern welfare state. So I do think it's right to make the distinction between left-wing and right-wing libertarianism.
- unishark 6y ago
  My understanding of the major libertarian groups in the US is that they side with the left on social issues like culture war, abortion, and secularism. They side with the right on economic issues like free markets. They like to make a 2D political compass to explain this difference. Insisting on placing them on an extreme on a 1D axis seems like an insistence on speaking in half-truths. At least they should be placed near the center yes. People tend to do this when they focus on narrow issues and ignore the rest. E.g. to someone who only cares about opposing gun control, a centrist who supports it is on the left in their eyes.
DanBC 6y ago
US context, unsurprisingly, isn't applicable to the UK. In the UK a bunch of people self-describe as libertarian, but are described by just about everyone else as right wing. Toby Young is a cunt and I hope he dies[1] a slow and painful death and he's definitely on what the UK would describe as the right. [1] People may think this is a bit strong but he has repeatedly called for eugenics, so what's good for the goose.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > US context, unsurprisingly, isn't applicable to the UK. Generally true, but... > In the UK a bunch of people self-describe as libertarian, but are described by just about everyone else as right wing. ...that's also true of the US.
- Consultant32452 6y ago
  In the US eugenics is primarily around aborting fetuses with birth defects and making abortion cheap and easy for the poor. In NY more black babies are aborted than are born. It's primarily a leftist idea. What is Toby promoting?