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Well it kinds looks like your car manufacturer stating in the manual that your car cannot tow. You know it just a matter of installing one, but they basically

Well it kinds looks like your car manufacturer stating in the manual that your car cannot tow. You know it just a matter of installing one, but they basically don't want to spend time supporting something they have no interest in.

bluGill 6y ago
In the case of cars often a car can tow, but it shouldn't. I know someone who burned out a transmission because the trailer was overweight (in this case it was a truck that the manual said max tow weight was 1/4th what he was towing). I haven't seen it myself, but my EMT friends have had to respond to cases where someone was towing I work for John Deere, it is well known that ECU code can change the horse power of our tractors. What isn't as well known is the tractors with higher horsepower ECUs have more warranty work, and that is a case where we engineer the system for the change (there is more than an ECU changed in getting higher horsepower if you buy it that way from us because we don't want warranty claims) If you know what the real limits of your system are you will sometimes discover the stated limits are less than the real limits. However other times the stated limits are there for a reason.
- andybak 6y ago
  Give people the facts. Let them decide but make sure you're protected from supporting idiots. Better than coming out of it looking like the evil dudes. EDIT being most well known outside your sector for suing your customers is generally a bad look
  - G4E 6y ago
    It sadly doesn't work like that. Idiots are idiots. "You sold me this truck, and it doesn't work anymore. - Well, we stated that you shouldn't do what you did... - It doeesnnn't work !!!" Ensue time, energy and money lost to defend yourself against idiots who don't listen. Edit : I don't know anything about trucks or John Deere. But you can see this type of "artificial" limitation with simple unlock pretty often. For example the cpu overclocking community : the manufacturer doesn't officialy support overclocking, but they give hints and some advice if you want to do it anyway. You fry your cpu, you're on your own.
  - scatters 6y ago
    Why should you care how you're known outside your sector? People outside your sector aren't your customers, by definition.
  - ShaniceWilliams 6y ago
    a really bad look lol. going to put them out of business once everyone is aware of how they don't take responsibility and blame their users
- alfalfasprout 6y ago
  idk... John Deere is notorious for DRMing their tractors so that even out of warranty modifications or repairs are impossible. It should be up to the user to be able to do the modifications they like and it's simply then up to the manufacturer whether to honor the warranty if the device/tractor has been significantly tampered with.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    I'm not going to comment much except to point out that it is fraud if you do such a thing and then sell/trade it in - the mechanical damage is done and the buyer should know - but has no way to know. I'll also point out that you probably were mad at VW for making the types of modifications that you claim anyone should be able to make.
    - R0b0t1 6y ago
      Under US law the burden is on the manufacturer to show that a modification impacted the functioning of the device/machine. It's kind of funny, because parts DRM could be seen as the manufacturer breaking the device when a replacement could have succeeded.
    - UncleEntity 6y ago
      Pretty sure nobody is going to go after me for fraud for putting non-VW heads on the `73 bus I used to drive around in...
      - floatingatoll 6y ago
        If you try to sell it as an "unmodified engine" without mentioning that in writing, they absolutely could. They might not, but if it breaks in some manner that could remotely be connected to them, they could. If the tractor is rated for 50 whatever and you chip it to run at 60 whatever and sell it without saying that you'd ever done so, then if the buyer finds damage caused by overheating or who knows what from running at 60 whatever on a 50-rated-and-softlocked engine, then you absolutely could be held liable for failing to indicate the non-factory modifications you made to the engine, even if you later 'removed' them. (Usual disclaimer: I am not your lawyer, I will not compile citations for your review, please seek legal counsel before taking action based on my comments.)
- mdoms 6y ago
  It's just an analogy dude
- omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
  I wouldn't go so far as to say cars shouldn't tow, but people can and do go well beyond both the manufacturer's rated capacity and what's dictated by common sense, and as a result manufacturers are extremely conservative.
- plorg 6y ago
  Often it's also for regulatory reasons, particularly around emissions. Larger engines require more complex emission controls, so often an engine (including e.g. a JD) will be sold with a nameplate of say 74hp and chip-limited. It could very likely get its maximum efficiency at that output. We have a vendor that sells equipment with a built-in engine, and we use some of the power from that engine to run other equipment. Under Tier-4 emissions requirements the vendor moved to all-digital controls, which have a much tighter control on power output. Our customers are annoyed that they can't get the same amount of power out of the new equipment. Our vendor tells us, unofficially, you could tweak the ECU and get more power out, but we're not going to do that to equipment we're selling, and we're not going to tell our customers to do that, because it would violate the legal restrictions on The operation of that equipment.
- izacus 6y ago
  And in many cases it's just a certification issue - my Mazda is rated to tow things while the US model with exact same transmission and engine isn't.
hnarn 6y ago
It’s actually nothing like that because nobody’s expecting Nvidia to support the functionality, just not block the software from even trying. You could solve it by literally just adding a disclaimer pop up that “this functionality is not supported on your GPU, would you like to try anyway?”.
- Godel_unicode 6y ago
  > nobody’s expecting Nvidia to support the functionality I 100% guarantee you there are people who will call Nvidia support (yes, they will literally dial +1-800-797-6530 on a phone like it's 1972) to complain about broadcast. Some people are unbelievably entitled, and think that no matter what it says on the box if they paid good money for it then it should by God do whatever stupid ass thing they want it to do.
  - hnarn 6y ago
    So? This is why service desk exists. And I say that as someone who previously worked in one. The key is that something being unsupported is clearly stated in the software and enforced by everyone in the organization. If done correctly you’ll have no PR penalty as the majority will take the party of the organization, and a PR benefit if it works for people even when they know it “shouldn’t”.

bluGill 6y ago

In the case of cars often a car can tow, but it shouldn't. I know someone who burned out a transmission because the trailer was overweight (in this case it was a truck that the manual said max tow weight was 1/4th what he was towing). I haven't seen it myself, but my EMT friends have had to respond to cases where someone was towing I work for John Deere, it is well known that ECU code can change the horse power of our tractors. What isn't as well known is the tractors with higher horsepower ECUs have more warranty work, and that is a case where we engineer the system for the change (there is more than an ECU changed in getting higher horsepower if you buy it that way from us because we don't want warranty claims) If you know what the real limits of your system are you will sometimes discover the stated limits are less than the real limits. However other times the stated limits are there for a reason.

andybak 6y ago
Give people the facts. Let them decide but make sure you're protected from supporting idiots. Better than coming out of it looking like the evil dudes. EDIT being most well known outside your sector for suing your customers is generally a bad look
- G4E 6y ago
  It sadly doesn't work like that. Idiots are idiots. "You sold me this truck, and it doesn't work anymore. - Well, we stated that you shouldn't do what you did... - It doeesnnn't work !!!" Ensue time, energy and money lost to defend yourself against idiots who don't listen. Edit : I don't know anything about trucks or John Deere. But you can see this type of "artificial" limitation with simple unlock pretty often. For example the cpu overclocking community : the manufacturer doesn't officialy support overclocking, but they give hints and some advice if you want to do it anyway. You fry your cpu, you're on your own.
- scatters 6y ago
  Why should you care how you're known outside your sector? People outside your sector aren't your customers, by definition.
- ShaniceWilliams 6y ago
  a really bad look lol. going to put them out of business once everyone is aware of how they don't take responsibility and blame their users
alfalfasprout 6y ago
idk... John Deere is notorious for DRMing their tractors so that even out of warranty modifications or repairs are impossible. It should be up to the user to be able to do the modifications they like and it's simply then up to the manufacturer whether to honor the warranty if the device/tractor has been significantly tampered with.
- bluGill 6y ago
  I'm not going to comment much except to point out that it is fraud if you do such a thing and then sell/trade it in - the mechanical damage is done and the buyer should know - but has no way to know. I'll also point out that you probably were mad at VW for making the types of modifications that you claim anyone should be able to make.
  - R0b0t1 6y ago
    Under US law the burden is on the manufacturer to show that a modification impacted the functioning of the device/machine. It's kind of funny, because parts DRM could be seen as the manufacturer breaking the device when a replacement could have succeeded.
  - UncleEntity 6y ago
    Pretty sure nobody is going to go after me for fraud for putting non-VW heads on the `73 bus I used to drive around in...
    - floatingatoll 6y ago
      If you try to sell it as an "unmodified engine" without mentioning that in writing, they absolutely could. They might not, but if it breaks in some manner that could remotely be connected to them, they could. If the tractor is rated for 50 whatever and you chip it to run at 60 whatever and sell it without saying that you'd ever done so, then if the buyer finds damage caused by overheating or who knows what from running at 60 whatever on a 50-rated-and-softlocked engine, then you absolutely could be held liable for failing to indicate the non-factory modifications you made to the engine, even if you later 'removed' them. (Usual disclaimer: I am not your lawyer, I will not compile citations for your review, please seek legal counsel before taking action based on my comments.)
mdoms 6y ago
It's just an analogy dude
omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
I wouldn't go so far as to say cars shouldn't tow, but people can and do go well beyond both the manufacturer's rated capacity and what's dictated by common sense, and as a result manufacturers are extremely conservative.
plorg 6y ago
Often it's also for regulatory reasons, particularly around emissions. Larger engines require more complex emission controls, so often an engine (including e.g. a JD) will be sold with a nameplate of say 74hp and chip-limited. It could very likely get its maximum efficiency at that output. We have a vendor that sells equipment with a built-in engine, and we use some of the power from that engine to run other equipment. Under Tier-4 emissions requirements the vendor moved to all-digital controls, which have a much tighter control on power output. Our customers are annoyed that they can't get the same amount of power out of the new equipment. Our vendor tells us, unofficially, you could tweak the ECU and get more power out, but we're not going to do that to equipment we're selling, and we're not going to tell our customers to do that, because it would violate the legal restrictions on The operation of that equipment.
izacus 6y ago
And in many cases it's just a certification issue - my Mazda is rated to tow things while the US model with exact same transmission and engine isn't.

hnarn 6y ago

It’s actually nothing like that because nobody’s expecting Nvidia to support the functionality, just not block the software from even trying. You could solve it by literally just adding a disclaimer pop up that “this functionality is not supported on your GPU, would you like to try anyway?”.

Godel_unicode 6y ago
> nobody’s expecting Nvidia to support the functionality I 100% guarantee you there are people who will call Nvidia support (yes, they will literally dial +1-800-797-6530 on a phone like it's 1972) to complain about broadcast. Some people are unbelievably entitled, and think that no matter what it says on the box if they paid good money for it then it should by God do whatever stupid ass thing they want it to do.
- hnarn 6y ago
  So? This is why service desk exists. And I say that as someone who previously worked in one. The key is that something being unsupported is clearly stated in the software and enforced by everyone in the organization. If done correctly you’ll have no PR penalty as the majority will take the party of the organization, and a PR benefit if it works for people even when they know it “shouldn’t”.