3 ms·

No. The age-stratified IFR is magnitudes different between people under 40 and people above 70. You can still achieve herd immunity without infecting the vulne

No. The age-stratified IFR is magnitudes different between people under 40 and people above 70. You can still achieve herd immunity without infecting the vulnerable. We have become better at treating patients with time as well, we now know that putting people on ventilators is a phenomenally bad idea, oxygen, steroids, and blood thinners is the way to go. Also, the death rate in the US is higher than in Sweden, so how are those lockdowns working out for you?

michaelmrose 6y ago
The US population is unhealthy with bad health care on average. 42% are obese. It's not Lockdown leading to greater mortality.
hvac 6y ago
The US? I'm not aware of any place here that's under lockdown.
- henrikschroder 6y ago
  Oahu in Hawaii is currently under lockdown until September 23rd.
  - hvac 6y ago
    Huh, you're right. Apparently there is limited hospital bed capacity on the Hawaiian islands.
- username90 6y ago
  As long as schools are closed you have at least a partial lockdown. Schools are still mostly closed in California, no?
  - clairity 6y ago
    yes, california is in arbitrary lockdown, closing many businesses and amenities that basically don't contribute to spread, rather than tackling the much harder but much more effective challenge of restricting (large) private social gatherings (where social norms actively discourage preventative measures like distancing) that are driving the spread (outside of hospitals and care facilities). our state "leaders" don't want to take the political hit of actually doing the effective rather than the performative.
    - username90 6y ago
      If you count excess mortality then California has 60% more deaths than registered covid deaths, as can be seen here. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/05/us/coronavirus-death-toll-us.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/05/us/coronaviru... If we take that into account then California actually has more deaths per capita than Sweden, and people are still dying in California so it will only get worse. So I agree their strategy was not all that good.
      - clairity 6y ago
        yes, as a resident, i can't tell you how frustrated i am with the inanity of it all. so much talk and bluster, so much performance, so much (lower- and middle-class) socioeconomic damage, yet so little effectiveness.
rootusrootus 6y ago
> Also, the death rate in the US is higher than in Sweden Is Sweden comparable to the US? The population is more like a US state. Let's take Oregon as an example. About half the population of Sweden, and less than 10% of the covid deaths. We're not exactly locked down, either.
- henrikschroder 6y ago
  We're doing individual states? Cool, let's look at the northeast. Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island all have a total covid-19 death rate that's more than 2x that of Sweden. Currently, the average daily cases is 5x higher in Rhode Island than in Sweden, 3x higher in Connecticut than in Sweden, and 2x higher in Massachusetts than in Sweden. The current daily covid-19 death rate in both Massachusetts and Rhode Island is higher than in Sweden.
  - serf 6y ago
    > We're doing individual states? Cool, let's look at the northeast. great, but what's the point? That Sweden is doing better than about a third of the United States? The original point being made is that it's apples to oranges to compare the U.S. as a country to another country that it dwarfs in every population metric if you're looking at how to shape public policy. In other words : There doesn't seem to be a one-size-fits-all solution for nation-wide policy making regarding a pandemic that fits every culture in the world. I don't think that this surprises anyone.
- Klinky 6y ago
  Oregon does have a mask mandate. Wildfires are forcing most sane people indoors. Schools are digital at the moment. Lots of people working from home. There are definitely mitigation measures being taken in Oregon.

michaelmrose 6y ago

The US population is unhealthy with bad health care on average. 42% are obese. It's not Lockdown leading to greater mortality.

hvac 6y ago

The US? I'm not aware of any place here that's under lockdown.

henrikschroder 6y ago
Oahu in Hawaii is currently under lockdown until September 23rd.
- hvac 6y ago
  Huh, you're right. Apparently there is limited hospital bed capacity on the Hawaiian islands.
username90 6y ago
As long as schools are closed you have at least a partial lockdown. Schools are still mostly closed in California, no?
- clairity 6y ago
  yes, california is in arbitrary lockdown, closing many businesses and amenities that basically don't contribute to spread, rather than tackling the much harder but much more effective challenge of restricting (large) private social gatherings (where social norms actively discourage preventative measures like distancing) that are driving the spread (outside of hospitals and care facilities). our state "leaders" don't want to take the political hit of actually doing the effective rather than the performative.
  - username90 6y ago
    If you count excess mortality then California has 60% more deaths than registered covid deaths, as can be seen here. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/05/us/coronavirus-death-toll-us.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/05/us/coronaviru... If we take that into account then California actually has more deaths per capita than Sweden, and people are still dying in California so it will only get worse. So I agree their strategy was not all that good.
    - clairity 6y ago
      yes, as a resident, i can't tell you how frustrated i am with the inanity of it all. so much talk and bluster, so much performance, so much (lower- and middle-class) socioeconomic damage, yet so little effectiveness.

rootusrootus 6y ago

> Also, the death rate in the US is higher than in Sweden Is Sweden comparable to the US? The population is more like a US state. Let's take Oregon as an example. About half the population of Sweden, and less than 10% of the covid deaths. We're not exactly locked down, either.

henrikschroder 6y ago
We're doing individual states? Cool, let's look at the northeast. Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island all have a total covid-19 death rate that's more than 2x that of Sweden. Currently, the average daily cases is 5x higher in Rhode Island than in Sweden, 3x higher in Connecticut than in Sweden, and 2x higher in Massachusetts than in Sweden. The current daily covid-19 death rate in both Massachusetts and Rhode Island is higher than in Sweden.
- serf 6y ago
  > We're doing individual states? Cool, let's look at the northeast. great, but what's the point? That Sweden is doing better than about a third of the United States? The original point being made is that it's apples to oranges to compare the U.S. as a country to another country that it dwarfs in every population metric if you're looking at how to shape public policy. In other words : There doesn't seem to be a one-size-fits-all solution for nation-wide policy making regarding a pandemic that fits every culture in the world. I don't think that this surprises anyone.
Klinky 6y ago
Oregon does have a mask mandate. Wildfires are forcing most sane people indoors. Schools are digital at the moment. Lots of people working from home. There are definitely mitigation measures being taken in Oregon.