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Nonsense. Von der leyen was proposed by the council, consisting of representatives from every country, and by extension representative for the voters in every c

by Joeri 6y ago

Nonsense. Von der leyen was proposed by the council, consisting of representatives from every country, and by extension representative for the voters in every country. She was then confirmed by a majority of the EU parliament, which is directly elected by the citizens. Every EU citizen voted in those elections, or had the opportunity to. So, if only a “very few” voted that is on them. If their elected representatives did things they didn’t like (like confirming von der leyen), that is on them also, in the next parliamentary elections. What you are complaining about is that she was elected by newly elected representatives, but not directly elected by citizens. I find this to be hairsplitting and meaningless in a context of representative democracy.

kazen44 6y ago
also, in european politics, direct election of officials rarely happens. (unlike in american politics). People usually vote for parties and the persons within them, not an individual.
- jariel 6y ago
  This isn't so important though. Canada UK are the same. You don't technically elect a Prime Minister. But - the party, platforms, PM etc are very transparent, and elections are held on that basis. If the Conservative Party of the UK ran with B. Johnson and Brexit, but then after the election decided to make some randome guy from Scotland - that nobody ever heard of - the Prime Minister, and said Scot made a 'Throne Speech' with some completely different agenda ... ...there would be a revoluion. And of course PM has to be someone elected at their riding for good reason. It's simply not good enough to say 'someone voted somewhere' so therefore 'it's democracy and we can do what we want'.
jariel 6y ago
Far from 'hairsplitting and meaningless' the issue is at the very crux of 'democracy'. That almost nobody voted in the election, that nobody knew who the leader - or the platform - was going to be, and that she was absolutely chosen after the fact, by unelected leaders, that she cannot be sanctioned or replaced, and that elected MEPs cannot propose legislation - is fundamental to the nature of democracy. Even in proper democracies, particularly in Parliamentary systems, even the budget requires approval without which the government falls and elections are called. Why? Because the proposition of budgets necessitate popular sanction. Parliament - and even legislative assemblies can dissolve government if necessary. Ursula von der Leyen has unambiguously the least democratic legitimacy of any leader in the free world, by far. The fact that the EU was purposefully designed this way - in the very face of very healthy democratic institutions i.e. Switzerland, UK, Germany - implies the lack of democracy was very much 'by design'. It's an existential issue.
nsajko 6y ago
You're oversimplifying to an absurd degree. Consider Socialist Yugoslavia, the main difference between its electoral system and those of non-communist states was the amount of indirection involved. Also, you ignored the second half of jariel's comment.

by Joeri 6y ago

kazen44 6y ago

also, in european politics, direct election of officials rarely happens. (unlike in american politics). People usually vote for parties and the persons within them, not an individual.

jariel 6y ago
This isn't so important though. Canada UK are the same. You don't technically elect a Prime Minister. But - the party, platforms, PM etc are very transparent, and elections are held on that basis. If the Conservative Party of the UK ran with B. Johnson and Brexit, but then after the election decided to make some randome guy from Scotland - that nobody ever heard of - the Prime Minister, and said Scot made a 'Throne Speech' with some completely different agenda ... ...there would be a revoluion. And of course PM has to be someone elected at their riding for good reason. It's simply not good enough to say 'someone voted somewhere' so therefore 'it's democracy and we can do what we want'.

jariel 6y ago

Far from 'hairsplitting and meaningless' the issue is at the very crux of 'democracy'. That almost nobody voted in the election, that nobody knew who the leader - or the platform - was going to be, and that she was absolutely chosen after the fact, by unelected leaders, that she cannot be sanctioned or replaced, and that elected MEPs cannot propose legislation - is fundamental to the nature of democracy. Even in proper democracies, particularly in Parliamentary systems, even the budget requires approval without which the government falls and elections are called. Why? Because the proposition of budgets necessitate popular sanction. Parliament - and even legislative assemblies can dissolve government if necessary. Ursula von der Leyen has unambiguously the least democratic legitimacy of any leader in the free world, by far. The fact that the EU was purposefully designed this way - in the very face of very healthy democratic institutions i.e. Switzerland, UK, Germany - implies the lack of democracy was very much 'by design'. It's an existential issue.

nsajko 6y ago

You're oversimplifying to an absurd degree. Consider Socialist Yugoslavia, the main difference between its electoral system and those of non-communist states was the amount of indirection involved. Also, you ignored the second half of jariel's comment.