5 ms·

For the benefit of others reading this: water management techniques are site specific and the optimum strategy will depend on how water is approaching a buildin

For the benefit of others reading this: water management techniques are site specific and the optimum strategy will depend on how water is approaching a building. Grading the ground to slope away from a house will work wonders if your problem is surface water, but different techniques will be required if your problem is ground water or roof run-off. Further, the degree of water protection required will depend heavily on both climate conditions and soil type. If you have fast-draining soil (e.g. sand) drainage will take care of itself regardless of how much rain you get. If you have non-draining soil (e.g. clay) you will need to go to a lot more trouble to keep water out even if it doesn't rain too much. Further, most of the techniques people are discussing in this thread--surface grading, french drains, exterior foundation waterproofing, roof rainwater diversion--are building code requirements in most areas. Any house built in at least the last 20 years, by competent contractors and in a jurisdiction with adequate code enforcement, should have all of these features built in. Older properties may, or may not, have water management features. Whether this is a problem will depend on local soil conditions and climate. If in doubt, consult a qualified engineer.

toast0 6y ago
> Any house built in at least the last 20 years, by competent contractors and in a jurisdiction with adequate code enforcement, should have all of these features built in. For those not in the construction business, this sentance needs the following addition ", but you need to check." Relying on code inspection and competent builders is like relying on software to follow RFC must and should. They should do it, but there's a significant chance they didn't and it's going to be your problem if they didn't, so you should confirm before you buy. You also can't rely on home inspectors to find this kind of thing; again, they should.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 6y ago
  My general experience dealing with contractors in a large city with a decent permitting system demonstrates that you have to basically force the contractor to comply - they won’t even do a permit unless you mention it first and some will even actively go out of their way to try to convince you not to get one. Not every contractor I’ve worked with is like this but more often than not it is the case.
  - sulam 6y ago
    Permits are often time-consuming to get and can be expensive. If you go shopping on price, you will likely find contractors who believe the best thing they can do for you is to avoid the time and expense. After all "I'm going to build it to code anyway." Having done a lot of work on two houses now, I don't shop on price, and my contractor always gets permits and does inspections.
just-juan-post 6y ago
What is the best way to self educate on these topics? I know I could buy and comprehend some used college text books. I am also interested in other related topics related to home / building construction and maintenance. What related topic(s) do you recommend? Any suggestions on how to approach formally learning these things from trusted sources?
- bleepblorp 6y ago
  Anything by Joseph Lstiburek[0] will give you a good insight into best practices from an engineering and research perspective. He has a lot of stuff on his website[1] but it's it's not very discoverable. Look under the guidance tab but be prepared to hunt around. If you're interested in the legal requirements for construction--which, unfortunately, are not necessarily the same as currently understood best practices--buy the relevant building code documentation for your jurisdiction. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Lstiburek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Lstiburek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rem5WhFiiwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rem5WhFiiwU [1] https://www.buildingscience.com/ https://www.buildingscience.com/
  - just-juan-post 6y ago
    Thanks. Along those lines how would one do some formal education on wanting to build (and maintain) their own house? I want to understand what my options are, what my limitations are (non-building code related), what the trade offs are (materials, techniques, site requirements). I want to self educate not only for the initial design and site selection but also so I have enough knowledge to work with contractors and understand the suggestions they are making. This is all new to me (apartment dweller) but it's coming soon and I'm not sure how to approach it in an efficient and formal way.
    - bleepblorp 6y ago
      I don't think there's a single educational track that addresses everything you want to know. An architecture degree would give you the background to address most things related to construction, but that's a 2-6 year commitment and is overkill if you just want to build your own house. I'm not aware of any formal tracks that address household maintenance. Most of this tends to be learned through a combination of reading permanent appliance manuals (e.g. if the manual for your water heater says 'do X every six months,' you do X every six months.) and googling how to fix stuff when it breaks. There's not a lot of non-obvious maintenance needed on the structure of a house. If stuff looks broken, you just look up how to fix it, or hire someone to fix it for you. There's not really much of an equivalent to car oil changes where something non-obvious has to be done regularly or the building turns to scrap.
CydeWeys 6y ago
All good points. I'll add that the company that wanted to charge me tens of thousands to put in all those features were saying it was a groundwater issue because they wanted to make money, but they were lying to me. They were essentially salespeople, and they didn't get paid unless they did work. The home inspector, meanwhile, who I paid and who wasn't beholden to any construction interests, gave me the correct diagnosis. There's an important lesson here that's especially apt for construction; always get independent advice. The few hundred it'll cost you is absolutely worth it because the typical cost of construction is so much more. As for code compliance -- like pretty much all houses in the area, it was built in the 1950s, so it didn't have any of that stuff per code. It had been substantially renovated recently by people who clearly were not following code and/or the permitting process and who fucked all sorts of things up (including the grading of the foundation; they had actually made it worse while doing unrelated landscaping). I also had some "fun" issues with unpermitted electrical work. If I had to guess I'd say that it could be over half of all work that isn't done correctly. So definitely don't trust it. Have someone who reports only to you looking over everything (if you don't have the knowledge yourself).
- sumtechguy 6y ago
  I usually get at least 3 quotes. A detailed quote is a good sign they know what they are doing. An open ended quote is a good sign they dont. This does not work 100% of the time. But a good diagnosis goes a long way. Someone I know wanted a bit of electrical and sheetrock work done in their house. The dude gave her a piece of paper with 1 number on it, how much. No detail/swag of material, no detail/swag of hours, nothing, just a price. What is interesting is I (and this is just luck) I seem to always get one awful, one medium, and one good. Just kind of worked out that way. The nice thing is once you find a decent contractor they can recommend others or do the work themselves. But finding a decent one can be a pain.
  - CydeWeys 6y ago
    Getting quotes will help you if you already knew exactly what work you needed performed, but if I had talked to 3 water infiltration mitigation companies I would have just ended up with 3 quotes in the tens of thousands of dollar range. None of them did landscaping, which was what I actually needed. So I wouldn't rely on quotes when there's any ambiguity in the problem. I would rely on quotes if e.g. I needed to replace my entire roof, or replace all my windows. Those at least are narrowly scoped.
WalterBright 6y ago
I neglected to mention that all the roof water was collected into pipes that went downhill into the storm drains. Having it dump out next to the house is asking for trouble.

toast0 6y ago

> Any house built in at least the last 20 years, by competent contractors and in a jurisdiction with adequate code enforcement, should have all of these features built in. For those not in the construction business, this sentance needs the following addition ", but you need to check." Relying on code inspection and competent builders is like relying on software to follow RFC must and should. They should do it, but there's a significant chance they didn't and it's going to be your problem if they didn't, so you should confirm before you buy. You also can't rely on home inspectors to find this kind of thing; again, they should.

SOLAR_FIELDS 6y ago
My general experience dealing with contractors in a large city with a decent permitting system demonstrates that you have to basically force the contractor to comply - they won’t even do a permit unless you mention it first and some will even actively go out of their way to try to convince you not to get one. Not every contractor I’ve worked with is like this but more often than not it is the case.
- sulam 6y ago
  Permits are often time-consuming to get and can be expensive. If you go shopping on price, you will likely find contractors who believe the best thing they can do for you is to avoid the time and expense. After all "I'm going to build it to code anyway." Having done a lot of work on two houses now, I don't shop on price, and my contractor always gets permits and does inspections.

just-juan-post 6y ago

What is the best way to self educate on these topics? I know I could buy and comprehend some used college text books. I am also interested in other related topics related to home / building construction and maintenance. What related topic(s) do you recommend? Any suggestions on how to approach formally learning these things from trusted sources?

bleepblorp 6y ago
Anything by Joseph Lstiburek[0] will give you a good insight into best practices from an engineering and research perspective. He has a lot of stuff on his website[1] but it's it's not very discoverable. Look under the guidance tab but be prepared to hunt around. If you're interested in the legal requirements for construction--which, unfortunately, are not necessarily the same as currently understood best practices--buy the relevant building code documentation for your jurisdiction. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Lstiburek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Lstiburek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rem5WhFiiwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rem5WhFiiwU [1] https://www.buildingscience.com/ https://www.buildingscience.com/
- just-juan-post 6y ago
  Thanks. Along those lines how would one do some formal education on wanting to build (and maintain) their own house? I want to understand what my options are, what my limitations are (non-building code related), what the trade offs are (materials, techniques, site requirements). I want to self educate not only for the initial design and site selection but also so I have enough knowledge to work with contractors and understand the suggestions they are making. This is all new to me (apartment dweller) but it's coming soon and I'm not sure how to approach it in an efficient and formal way.
  - bleepblorp 6y ago
    I don't think there's a single educational track that addresses everything you want to know. An architecture degree would give you the background to address most things related to construction, but that's a 2-6 year commitment and is overkill if you just want to build your own house. I'm not aware of any formal tracks that address household maintenance. Most of this tends to be learned through a combination of reading permanent appliance manuals (e.g. if the manual for your water heater says 'do X every six months,' you do X every six months.) and googling how to fix stuff when it breaks. There's not a lot of non-obvious maintenance needed on the structure of a house. If stuff looks broken, you just look up how to fix it, or hire someone to fix it for you. There's not really much of an equivalent to car oil changes where something non-obvious has to be done regularly or the building turns to scrap.

CydeWeys 6y ago

All good points. I'll add that the company that wanted to charge me tens of thousands to put in all those features were saying it was a groundwater issue because they wanted to make money, but they were lying to me. They were essentially salespeople, and they didn't get paid unless they did work. The home inspector, meanwhile, who I paid and who wasn't beholden to any construction interests, gave me the correct diagnosis. There's an important lesson here that's especially apt for construction; always get independent advice. The few hundred it'll cost you is absolutely worth it because the typical cost of construction is so much more. As for code compliance -- like pretty much all houses in the area, it was built in the 1950s, so it didn't have any of that stuff per code. It had been substantially renovated recently by people who clearly were not following code and/or the permitting process and who fucked all sorts of things up (including the grading of the foundation; they had actually made it worse while doing unrelated landscaping). I also had some "fun" issues with unpermitted electrical work. If I had to guess I'd say that it could be over half of all work that isn't done correctly. So definitely don't trust it. Have someone who reports only to you looking over everything (if you don't have the knowledge yourself).

sumtechguy 6y ago
I usually get at least 3 quotes. A detailed quote is a good sign they know what they are doing. An open ended quote is a good sign they dont. This does not work 100% of the time. But a good diagnosis goes a long way. Someone I know wanted a bit of electrical and sheetrock work done in their house. The dude gave her a piece of paper with 1 number on it, how much. No detail/swag of material, no detail/swag of hours, nothing, just a price. What is interesting is I (and this is just luck) I seem to always get one awful, one medium, and one good. Just kind of worked out that way. The nice thing is once you find a decent contractor they can recommend others or do the work themselves. But finding a decent one can be a pain.
- CydeWeys 6y ago
  Getting quotes will help you if you already knew exactly what work you needed performed, but if I had talked to 3 water infiltration mitigation companies I would have just ended up with 3 quotes in the tens of thousands of dollar range. None of them did landscaping, which was what I actually needed. So I wouldn't rely on quotes when there's any ambiguity in the problem. I would rely on quotes if e.g. I needed to replace my entire roof, or replace all my windows. Those at least are narrowly scoped.

WalterBright 6y ago

I neglected to mention that all the roof water was collected into pipes that went downhill into the storm drains. Having it dump out next to the house is asking for trouble.