4 ms·

Counterpoint: why is environmental impact of solar+batteries often not mentioned? Lithium, silicon tetrachloride, hydrochloric and hydrofluoric acid isn't exac

Counterpoint: why is environmental impact of solar+batteries often not mentioned? Lithium, silicon tetrachloride, hydrochloric and hydrofluoric acid isn't exactly nice to produce or put into rivers. My 2c: have an "all of the above" approach towards research, dispassionately understand pros and cons and big-picture complexity, instead of retreating to tribes that ignore the complexity.

SiempreViernes 6y ago
Well, you skip all the same nasty metals needed for the reactor vessels and support equipment too, so it's an even trade?
- jabl 6y ago
  Most of the mass of a nuclear power plant is steel and concrete, which are relatively benign. But the big advantage of nuclear in this case is that the overall amount of materials needed is tiny compared to harvesting more diffuse forms of energy like wind and solar.
projektfu 6y ago
Mining and enriching nuclear fuel is, what, benign?
- dodobirdlord 6y ago
  Comparatively, yes. You need so much less of it. There aren't very many uranium mines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mining#/media/File:Uranium_production_world.PNG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mining#/media/File:Ura...
  - jabl 6y ago
    Further, many uranium mines, especially newer ones, use in-situ leaching, meaning the mine is essentially just a few holes drilled into the ground.
pfdietz 6y ago
None of those are persistent environmental poisons, or need be released into the environment. BTW, I believe hydrofluoric acid is not used to make silicon PV cells.
- philipkglass 6y ago
  Hydrofluoric acid is part of the acidic etch solution used to remove saw damage from and add texture to multicrystalline silicon wafers. Monocrstyalline wafers are treated with alkaline solutions of e.g. potassium hydroxide. https://pv-manufacturing.org/acid-texturing/ https://pv-manufacturing.org/acid-texturing/ https://pv-manufacturing.org/alkaline-texturing/ https://pv-manufacturing.org/alkaline-texturing/ Since the industry is rapidly shifting to monocrystalline silicon, for reasons of cell efficiency, acidic etching too will be much less common in 2025 than it was in 2015. Of course the use of HF is not a knock against solar. Nuclear fuel production also uses HF as well as elemental fluorine. Petroleum alkylation units use HF too. In all these cases the HF is part of the production process but is not present in the final product.
  - pfdietz 6y ago
    Thank you for the correction!

SiempreViernes 6y ago

Well, you skip all the same nasty metals needed for the reactor vessels and support equipment too, so it's an even trade?

jabl 6y ago
Most of the mass of a nuclear power plant is steel and concrete, which are relatively benign. But the big advantage of nuclear in this case is that the overall amount of materials needed is tiny compared to harvesting more diffuse forms of energy like wind and solar.

projektfu 6y ago

Mining and enriching nuclear fuel is, what, benign?

dodobirdlord 6y ago
Comparatively, yes. You need so much less of it. There aren't very many uranium mines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mining#/media/File:Uranium_production_world.PNG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mining#/media/File:Ura...
- jabl 6y ago
  Further, many uranium mines, especially newer ones, use in-situ leaching, meaning the mine is essentially just a few holes drilled into the ground.

pfdietz 6y ago

None of those are persistent environmental poisons, or need be released into the environment. BTW, I believe hydrofluoric acid is not used to make silicon PV cells.

philipkglass 6y ago
Hydrofluoric acid is part of the acidic etch solution used to remove saw damage from and add texture to multicrystalline silicon wafers. Monocrstyalline wafers are treated with alkaline solutions of e.g. potassium hydroxide. https://pv-manufacturing.org/acid-texturing/ https://pv-manufacturing.org/acid-texturing/ https://pv-manufacturing.org/alkaline-texturing/ https://pv-manufacturing.org/alkaline-texturing/ Since the industry is rapidly shifting to monocrystalline silicon, for reasons of cell efficiency, acidic etching too will be much less common in 2025 than it was in 2015. Of course the use of HF is not a knock against solar. Nuclear fuel production also uses HF as well as elemental fluorine. Petroleum alkylation units use HF too. In all these cases the HF is part of the production process but is not present in the final product.
- pfdietz 6y ago
  Thank you for the correction!