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> Quotas are hard to enforce meaningfully. They work well when people are already disposed to be helpful - but even then they still have issues. That's not tru

by ardy42 6y ago

> Quotas are hard to enforce meaningfully. They work well when people are already disposed to be helpful - but even then they still have issues. That's not true, you just have to design them properly. For instance: 3M knows its customers, and can decide give retail hardware stores an N95 quota of zero and hospital systems large quotas, roughly based on need. Those organizations aren't going to get into slap fights in an aisle. > Our local grocery chain had a quota on milk (for good reason) and the amount of fights and nearly brawls over it were amazing An unsourced anecdote about a failure of an unspecified retail quota system is not good evidence against emergency quotas in general. It might not even be accurate. > People go to crazy limits to evade the quotas (visiting multiple stores, making multiple purchases in the same trip, etc) and often times they do simply because the quota exists - how many people actually buy more than 2 gallons of milk normally? IMHO, the main goal of loosely-enforced retail quotas like those is not so much to strictly limit people to the quota, but to increase friction to frustrate hoarders and profiteers.

ComputerGuru 6y ago
> hardware stores an N9s quota of zero See, this is a problem. Idiots/scalpers/resellers/paranoids raiding hardware stores for masks is terrible, but construction was considered an essential business country-wide and never halted meaning you still had minimum wage day laborers (not to mention unionized construction workers making well over that) working in environments N95 masks were designed for that had no access to PPE but still needed to report for work because they need to put food on the table and don’t legally qualify for unemployment (since the jobs are there and they’re not being fired/laid off).
- ardy42 6y ago
  > but construction was considered an essential business country-wide and never baked meaning you still had minimum wage day laborers (and unionized construction workers making well over that) working in environments N95 masks were designed for that had no access to PPE but still needed to report for work IMHO, most N95s on retail shelves probably wouldn't have gone to construction workers anyway; they'd have been snatched up by consumers with no real need. I do think it would have been reasonable allocate a quota to to go to construction supply companies that weren't open to the general public, though, for precisely the reasons you outlined. This story is pretty interesting, construction workers/companies are having to make similar kinds of adaptations to the shortage as healthcare workers are: https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate/coronavirus-construction-n95-masks-pennsylvania-20200517.html https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate/coronavirus-constructio... > To combat supply shortages, the federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration has temporarily adjusted some of its requirements for both health-care and construction workers, including allowing them to wear N95 respirator masks for longer than their intended use — normally a day or two for construction workers — and to use other types of respirators, such as KN95s shipped from China.... > OSHA is advising employers to reduce the need for N95 masks at jobsites any way they can, a Department of Labor spokesperson said. The National Association of Home Builders advises those who can’t find masks to minimize dust by vacuuming and wet cutting. The article even talked about construction companies and unions donating their existing mask stockpiles.

by ardy42 6y ago

ComputerGuru 6y ago

> hardware stores an N9s quota of zero See, this is a problem. Idiots/scalpers/resellers/paranoids raiding hardware stores for masks is terrible, but construction was considered an essential business country-wide and never halted meaning you still had minimum wage day laborers (not to mention unionized construction workers making well over that) working in environments N95 masks were designed for that had no access to PPE but still needed to report for work because they need to put food on the table and don’t legally qualify for unemployment (since the jobs are there and they’re not being fired/laid off).

ardy42 6y ago
> but construction was considered an essential business country-wide and never baked meaning you still had minimum wage day laborers (and unionized construction workers making well over that) working in environments N95 masks were designed for that had no access to PPE but still needed to report for work IMHO, most N95s on retail shelves probably wouldn't have gone to construction workers anyway; they'd have been snatched up by consumers with no real need. I do think it would have been reasonable allocate a quota to to go to construction supply companies that weren't open to the general public, though, for precisely the reasons you outlined. This story is pretty interesting, construction workers/companies are having to make similar kinds of adaptations to the shortage as healthcare workers are: https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate/coronavirus-construction-n95-masks-pennsylvania-20200517.html https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate/coronavirus-constructio... > To combat supply shortages, the federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration has temporarily adjusted some of its requirements for both health-care and construction workers, including allowing them to wear N95 respirator masks for longer than their intended use — normally a day or two for construction workers — and to use other types of respirators, such as KN95s shipped from China.... > OSHA is advising employers to reduce the need for N95 masks at jobsites any way they can, a Department of Labor spokesperson said. The National Association of Home Builders advises those who can’t find masks to minimize dust by vacuuming and wet cutting. The article even talked about construction companies and unions donating their existing mask stockpiles.