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I don't think author is correct. One more piece from someone who cannot imagine people being interesting in other things than computers. I don't see car enthusi

by rimliu 6y ago

I don't think author is correct. One more piece from someone who cannot imagine people being interesting in other things than computers. I don't see car enthusiasts lamenting (maybe they do, I just don't see them) that Joe Average has no idea how to tune a carburetor or change the brake fluid. Once again some talk about the imagined war on "general purpose computing". You know who is interested in general purpose computing? People doing it. For others computer is just a tool helpful to write an email, retouch some photos, or compose some music. Do we see public WiFi where we have zero access to configuration, as the "war on general purpose networking"? Or do we not care as long as it works (snooping aside).

ghoward 6y ago
The phrase "snooping aside" invalidates your whole argument. It's not like using a car will harm Joe Average on average, but because of the snooping carried on by general-purpose computers, using a computer does hurt Joe Average on average.
- rimliu 6y ago
  If you think it invalidates my whole argument, then you did not understand my argument at all. It is extremely sad that HN folks have zero empathy.
  - ghoward 6y ago
    I think you didn't understand me. I do understand that Joe Average wants to use general-purpose computing to accomplish things. My point is that Joe Average does not understand the hidden costs of using computers that are spying on him, costs that might make him want to find some other way of accomplishing his tasks.
joystickswagger 6y ago
> I don't see car enthusiasts lamenting (maybe they do, I just don't see them) that Joe Average has no idea how to tune a carburetor I think they do, and you just don't see them. I think what the author describe has been happening a lot and even more violently in the car industry. I just think the average Joe doesn't have enough incentive to care and will just throw his car and buy a new one if there is an issue. But for some specific users it has became really apparent. One of the trend in the farming truck industry is to numerically mark all components of the truck "to help farmer identify and repair". Practically, a lot of truck will behave like printers and stop working if they detect a component is defective / not original even if the fault is minor. Thus, for a while, farmers used hackers services to bypass those costly replacements. But as the manufacturing companies are catching up, it's becoming harder and harder. So the net result is that trucks from the 80's have seen their price explode as they are deemed much more reliable and can be fixed without requiring an authorization. (https://jalopnik.com/classic-tractors-from-the-80s-are-becoming-popular-with-1840854969 https://jalopnik.com/classic-tractors-from-the-80s-are-becom...) I think the vendor lock-in trend might have originated in the tech industries but is definitely trending everywhere (computers, phones, cars, coffee machines, printers, video games, can you name more..?).
Kim_Bruning 6y ago
They do, they complain loudly. Modern cars also have computers built in, and car companies try to lock them down. This then makes it very hard for 3rd parties to fix at times. Here's an example of car enthusiasts not just sitting down and lamenting, but successfully pushing for changes in laws: https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/service-repair/right-to-repair-campaign https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/service-repair/right-to... That's just the first useful link I could find in 5 minutes; which means there's bound to be a lot more if you google around a bit. (try "right to repair" and "eu" in your search terms)

by rimliu 6y ago

ghoward 6y ago

The phrase "snooping aside" invalidates your whole argument. It's not like using a car will harm Joe Average on average, but because of the snooping carried on by general-purpose computers, using a computer does hurt Joe Average on average.

rimliu 6y ago
If you think it invalidates my whole argument, then you did not understand my argument at all. It is extremely sad that HN folks have zero empathy.
- ghoward 6y ago
  I think you didn't understand me. I do understand that Joe Average wants to use general-purpose computing to accomplish things. My point is that Joe Average does not understand the hidden costs of using computers that are spying on him, costs that might make him want to find some other way of accomplishing his tasks.

joystickswagger 6y ago

> I don't see car enthusiasts lamenting (maybe they do, I just don't see them) that Joe Average has no idea how to tune a carburetor I think they do, and you just don't see them. I think what the author describe has been happening a lot and even more violently in the car industry. I just think the average Joe doesn't have enough incentive to care and will just throw his car and buy a new one if there is an issue. But for some specific users it has became really apparent. One of the trend in the farming truck industry is to numerically mark all components of the truck "to help farmer identify and repair". Practically, a lot of truck will behave like printers and stop working if they detect a component is defective / not original even if the fault is minor. Thus, for a while, farmers used hackers services to bypass those costly replacements. But as the manufacturing companies are catching up, it's becoming harder and harder. So the net result is that trucks from the 80's have seen their price explode as they are deemed much more reliable and can be fixed without requiring an authorization. (https://jalopnik.com/classic-tractors-from-the-80s-are-becoming-popular-with-1840854969 https://jalopnik.com/classic-tractors-from-the-80s-are-becom...) I think the vendor lock-in trend might have originated in the tech industries but is definitely trending everywhere (computers, phones, cars, coffee machines, printers, video games, can you name more..?).

Kim_Bruning 6y ago

They do, they complain loudly. Modern cars also have computers built in, and car companies try to lock them down. This then makes it very hard for 3rd parties to fix at times. Here's an example of car enthusiasts not just sitting down and lamenting, but successfully pushing for changes in laws: https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/service-repair/right-to-repair-campaign https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/service-repair/right-to... That's just the first useful link I could find in 5 minutes; which means there's bound to be a lot more if you google around a bit. (try "right to repair" and "eu" in your search terms)