5 ms·

Could concrete be substituted for the underground use case, like putting a metal container into the ground and call it a home? I'm fascinated with the idea of h

by a_imho 6y ago

Could concrete be substituted for the underground use case, like putting a metal container into the ground and call it a home? I'm fascinated with the idea of having a house with (mostly) passive temperature control. Could an underground design help with that?

082349872349872 6y ago
Fourier reportedly applied his eponymous series in verifying the vernacular architectural choice of 2-3 metre depth for cellars. For a modern presentation, see https://topex.ucsd.edu/geodynamics/HW3_2010_presentations/C_wine_cellar.pdf https://topex.ucsd.edu/geodynamics/HW3_2010_presentations/C_... Autographic notes might be found in the vicinity of https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b9061905f/f9.image.r=fourier%20joseph https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b9061905f/f9.image.r=f... The closest to a cellar discussion I find in his 1822 book is: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k1045508v/f43.item https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k1045508v/f43.item but in this book I only find him working out the zero variation depth, not the depth for six-month temperature lag. Anyone have a title for the cellar paper? (just before giving up I found Mémoire sur la température du globe terrestre et des espaces planétaires, which mentions that one would need a good sampling of local reflectivity and plenty of computation to derive global heating due to insolation.) related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Earth#Radiometric_dating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Earth#Radiometric_datin...
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Big corrugated culvert and Quonset huts have been buried as temporary military installations. Steel rusts and aluminum and stainless are expensive. If you want a waterproof container I'd look into used plastic or fiberglass industrial process tanks (preferably ones that held something not too nasty, so likely from the food industry), dig a hole, do proper compaction and gravel base then plop the tanks in (fill them with water or something so they don't float away) and then pour concrete around them for strength (leaving holes for your vents and doors and whatnot). You're going to have to become well versed in chemistry and construction to prevent all your "rooms" from leaking at the doorways where you have cut holes to join them together.
- hchz 6y ago
  I worked for some time at a former nuclear weapons research facility where a number of Transite composite asbestos Quonset huts were built in the 50's and used through the 2000's. Checking google maps, it appears that they've finally remediated these structures, but they were in fine condition up until then.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    Asbestos ones last a lot longer than the steel ones. The galvanization slowly fails around the edged where there's exposed metal and trapped moisture. They do last a long time but I wouldn't want to put one underground where I couldn't fix it and where any rust hole instantly becomes a leak.
jqpabc123 6y ago
See the youtube example below. An underground home needs substantial strength to resist the weight of the soil all around it. Concrete is strong and cheap but porus --- not watertight. To make it water tight, you need a sealed membrane that extends all the way under the foundation. Otherwise, water/moisture will be seep up through the floor. Saturated soil surrounding your home will exhibit water pressure from gravity trying to force it into your home. The required moisture membrane is subject to being broken during construction or afterwards from settlement. Personally, if I was sold on the concept, I would look at the possibility of building up --- not down. Think of a tube open on the ends or a box open on one side but otherwise covered by a mound of soil. The foundation could rest on one big French drain system and this could be extended up the sides as well. This way, the force of gravity can pull water away from the home, not into it.
cellularmitosis 6y ago
Here’s an example https://youtu.be/Z0oFJ2jbkDI https://youtu.be/Z0oFJ2jbkDI
pjc50 6y ago
Underground container would have surprisingly terrible temperature control, because it would be in direct contact with the damp earth. Building a (waterproof) shell inside the container could work pretty well though.

by a_imho 6y ago

082349872349872 6y ago

Fourier reportedly applied his eponymous series in verifying the vernacular architectural choice of 2-3 metre depth for cellars. For a modern presentation, see https://topex.ucsd.edu/geodynamics/HW3_2010_presentations/C_wine_cellar.pdf https://topex.ucsd.edu/geodynamics/HW3_2010_presentations/C_... Autographic notes might be found in the vicinity of https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b9061905f/f9.image.r=fourier%20joseph https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b9061905f/f9.image.r=f... The closest to a cellar discussion I find in his 1822 book is: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k1045508v/f43.item https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k1045508v/f43.item but in this book I only find him working out the zero variation depth, not the depth for six-month temperature lag. Anyone have a title for the cellar paper? (just before giving up I found Mémoire sur la température du globe terrestre et des espaces planétaires, which mentions that one would need a good sampling of local reflectivity and plenty of computation to derive global heating due to insolation.) related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Earth#Radiometric_dating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Earth#Radiometric_datin...

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

Big corrugated culvert and Quonset huts have been buried as temporary military installations. Steel rusts and aluminum and stainless are expensive. If you want a waterproof container I'd look into used plastic or fiberglass industrial process tanks (preferably ones that held something not too nasty, so likely from the food industry), dig a hole, do proper compaction and gravel base then plop the tanks in (fill them with water or something so they don't float away) and then pour concrete around them for strength (leaving holes for your vents and doors and whatnot). You're going to have to become well versed in chemistry and construction to prevent all your "rooms" from leaking at the doorways where you have cut holes to join them together.

hchz 6y ago
I worked for some time at a former nuclear weapons research facility where a number of Transite composite asbestos Quonset huts were built in the 50's and used through the 2000's. Checking google maps, it appears that they've finally remediated these structures, but they were in fine condition up until then.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Asbestos ones last a lot longer than the steel ones. The galvanization slowly fails around the edged where there's exposed metal and trapped moisture. They do last a long time but I wouldn't want to put one underground where I couldn't fix it and where any rust hole instantly becomes a leak.

jqpabc123 6y ago

See the youtube example below. An underground home needs substantial strength to resist the weight of the soil all around it. Concrete is strong and cheap but porus --- not watertight. To make it water tight, you need a sealed membrane that extends all the way under the foundation. Otherwise, water/moisture will be seep up through the floor. Saturated soil surrounding your home will exhibit water pressure from gravity trying to force it into your home. The required moisture membrane is subject to being broken during construction or afterwards from settlement. Personally, if I was sold on the concept, I would look at the possibility of building up --- not down. Think of a tube open on the ends or a box open on one side but otherwise covered by a mound of soil. The foundation could rest on one big French drain system and this could be extended up the sides as well. This way, the force of gravity can pull water away from the home, not into it.

cellularmitosis 6y ago

Here’s an example https://youtu.be/Z0oFJ2jbkDI https://youtu.be/Z0oFJ2jbkDI

pjc50 6y ago

Underground container would have surprisingly terrible temperature control, because it would be in direct contact with the damp earth. Building a (waterproof) shell inside the container could work pretty well though.