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> It boggles the mind that anyone who can write code would ever use a closed source operating system. Some of us want our work to actually reach people who don

> It boggles the mind that anyone who can write code would ever use a closed source operating system. Some of us want our work to actually reach people who don't write code or sysadmin their own computer, i.e. most people in the world. I, for one, think my effort is wasted if it doesn't benefit those people. So while working exclusively on a free-software platform is tempting from an ideological purity point of view (edit: and I envy people like you that manage to make a living doing it), I don't think I'd ever actually do it. Edit: I should be more concrete and less snarky. Working on developer tools is good and necessary, and you can do that effectively on a free-software platform like Linux. But I choose to focus on end-user-facing software, particularly in the field of accessibility. I could work on desktop Linux accessibility, for the vanishingly small number of blind people who use desktop Linux (and that number is shrinking; one of my blind programmer friends just switched to Windows). Or I could target one or more of the mainstream platforms where the users actually are. I suppose I could work exclusively on web applications, but I don't think that would be the best use of my skills. And even then, while I could develop primarily on Linux, I'd have to test on other platforms too.

patrickaljord 6y ago
Working on a free software platform is not mutually exclusive with reaching the majority of end-users. You can develop web apps for example or use cross platform toolkits for native apps. That's what I do and it works great.
- jamil7 6y ago
  One of the major selling points of the Editor posted here is that it isn't a cross platform app or built with web tech. Those already exist and it's great that we have choices but some developers like Panic have carved out a niche selling software thats very specific and tightly integrated into the platform. For those developers using the platform they're developing for makes a lot of sense.
- naravara 6y ago
  When you use Nova and then go back to something web based, like Atom, it becomes clear why that’s not ideal. It jut feels snappier.
  - hashkb 6y ago
    And then when you go back to something terminal based, like Vim, it becomes clear...
    - jamil7 6y ago
      To be fair if you get a few plugins for web dev running vim/nvim does slow down a quite a bit.
      - hashkb 6y ago
        I have a zillion plugins and vim is still snappy. Plus, editing requires so much less effort that it'd be better even if there was lag, which there isn't.
        jamil7 6y ago
        Good to know, it might be an issue with my config in that case. Agree on the editing side though.
rglullis 6y ago
Or you could realize that your "mission" would be to break the chicken-and-egg problem, write more end-user-facing software in an open platform so that non-developers can actually enjoy the same benefits that developers do. Someone has to do it. If you have the skills, why not you?
heavyset_go 6y ago
> Some of us want our work to actually reach people who don't write code or sysadmin their own computer, i.e. most people in the world The majority of the internet is run on free software, and free software touches nearly every stack, even ones that are otherwise proprietary. With regard to accessibility, there are open source tools out there that are pretty great for blind users, but they still need more work. There are also blind users that can't afford a Windows licenses or expensive screen reader software. I've worked with a local charity that helps people with sight impairments, and the money just isn't there when it comes to expensive software licenses and hardware. If more open source options for people that have sight impairments become available, that would help a lot of those that are currently priced out of using modern technology for work, leisure and social interaction.
ddevault 6y ago
Do you not see how this is a self-defeating attitude? Do you recall when I suggested that you would be a great fit for leading an organization devoted to improving accessibility in free software? Have you resigned yourself to failure in the pursuit of improving access to open source for users with accessibility requirements? It'd be a pity to know that was the case. I really wish you would step up and embrace the ideals you espouse, because I think that you could make an amazing impact if you applied yourself to it.
tripzilch 6y ago
> I could work on desktop Linux accessibility, for the vanishingly small number of blind people who use desktop Linux > one of my blind programmer friends just switched to Windows Where they happy that their choices were being reduced to using a closed source operating system, now forever being dependent on the support of a giant corporation, partially because their friends like to write code that "actually reaches people" instead of contributing to an open and accessible solution used by a vanishingly small number of blind people?

patrickaljord 6y ago

Working on a free software platform is not mutually exclusive with reaching the majority of end-users. You can develop web apps for example or use cross platform toolkits for native apps. That's what I do and it works great.

jamil7 6y ago
One of the major selling points of the Editor posted here is that it isn't a cross platform app or built with web tech. Those already exist and it's great that we have choices but some developers like Panic have carved out a niche selling software thats very specific and tightly integrated into the platform. For those developers using the platform they're developing for makes a lot of sense.
naravara 6y ago
When you use Nova and then go back to something web based, like Atom, it becomes clear why that’s not ideal. It jut feels snappier.
- hashkb 6y ago
  And then when you go back to something terminal based, like Vim, it becomes clear...
  - jamil7 6y ago
    To be fair if you get a few plugins for web dev running vim/nvim does slow down a quite a bit.
    - hashkb 6y ago
      I have a zillion plugins and vim is still snappy. Plus, editing requires so much less effort that it'd be better even if there was lag, which there isn't.
      - jamil7 6y ago
        Good to know, it might be an issue with my config in that case. Agree on the editing side though.

rglullis 6y ago

Or you could realize that your "mission" would be to break the chicken-and-egg problem, write more end-user-facing software in an open platform so that non-developers can actually enjoy the same benefits that developers do. Someone has to do it. If you have the skills, why not you?

heavyset_go 6y ago

> Some of us want our work to actually reach people who don't write code or sysadmin their own computer, i.e. most people in the world The majority of the internet is run on free software, and free software touches nearly every stack, even ones that are otherwise proprietary. With regard to accessibility, there are open source tools out there that are pretty great for blind users, but they still need more work. There are also blind users that can't afford a Windows licenses or expensive screen reader software. I've worked with a local charity that helps people with sight impairments, and the money just isn't there when it comes to expensive software licenses and hardware. If more open source options for people that have sight impairments become available, that would help a lot of those that are currently priced out of using modern technology for work, leisure and social interaction.

ddevault 6y ago

Do you not see how this is a self-defeating attitude? Do you recall when I suggested that you would be a great fit for leading an organization devoted to improving accessibility in free software? Have you resigned yourself to failure in the pursuit of improving access to open source for users with accessibility requirements? It'd be a pity to know that was the case. I really wish you would step up and embrace the ideals you espouse, because I think that you could make an amazing impact if you applied yourself to it.

tripzilch 6y ago

> I could work on desktop Linux accessibility, for the vanishingly small number of blind people who use desktop Linux > one of my blind programmer friends just switched to Windows Where they happy that their choices were being reduced to using a closed source operating system, now forever being dependent on the support of a giant corporation, partially because their friends like to write code that "actually reaches people" instead of contributing to an open and accessible solution used by a vanishingly small number of blind people?