5 ms·

Honestly, I respect Cory Doctorow for sticking to his principles and doing something that is sure to hurt financially. Unfortunately, like many other people, I

by edanm 6y ago

Honestly, I respect Cory Doctorow for sticking to his principles and doing something that is sure to hurt financially. Unfortunately, like many other people, I only ever listen to audiobooks on Audible, and if something isn't there - I won't listen to it. This is rare enough that it almost never happens - and my list of books to read is long enough that I will never ever run out of things I want to read. I've actually never read Cory Doctorow's books (yet!), so I'm obviously not the people he imagines as the prime market for this in any case.

mjburgess 6y ago
It's not clear to me that this is "sure to hurt". Whilst dressed up in the language of principle it is, in economic terms, just another creative whose reputation provides for a "pre-sold" market he is able to exploit for greater personal profit. Pretty standard: Louis CK was the first mover in comedy on this; pop artists are following. The "basic internet" works extremely well as a dumb & free distribution channel if you don't need to build an audience. I'm not saying Cory is insincere, but I am unconvinced his sincerity would hold were he a budding author. On the surface at least, it just reads like yet another artist hamstrung by their distributor whose reputation has superseded their need. If one were to be even more cynical, as Cory himself admits, you could see the whole anti-amazon complaint as a mere marketing tactic. It is, in any case, /why/ this has succeeded and why we are talking about it.
- webmaven 6y ago
  > I'm not saying Cory is insincere, but I am unconvinced his sincerity would hold were he a budding author. On the surface at least, it just reads like yet another artist hamstrung by their distributor whose reputation has superseded their need. Umm... Cory has been doing this sort of thing (such as releasing his novels as gratis+libre ebooks in multiple formats) from the very beginning (2003), eg.: https://craphound.com/down/download/ https://craphound.com/down/download/ You can find them freely (and legally) distributed by various 3rd parties: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/3826 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/3826 https://manybooks.net/authors/doctorow.html https://manybooks.net/authors/doctorow.html http://www.feedbooks.com/author/93 http://www.feedbooks.com/author/93
  - mjburgess 6y ago
    You might find this a bit dismissive/cynical but i wonder whether that early phase can be explained also. There's two relevant strategies to an audience/market here: "open source" (/esteem/reputation) and "taste-maker"/brand/distributor. The free-to-read reputation-led strategy does not earn you anything in the early phase -- so you have to have a job elsewhere. But you build esteem/reputation more easily: more readers. If you do that well, you reap the rewards later by by-passing the taste-maker channels. This requires early-career funding from elsewhere. If you cannot get that funding you need to rely on distributors to earn anything at all. /Therefore/ I wonder whether this reputation-led anti-tastemaker ethos really is just selecting for wealth (of one kind or another). If so, yes Cory isn't a mere opportunist, sure. But his position seems to presuppose early-career privileges others do not have: in this sense he was never a "budding author" as I meantt it. My point was that as a person starting out /and relying on distributors for income/ you cannot really have this view.
    - webmaven 6y ago
      No "budding author" relies on their income from writing at the very beginning, since it is approximately zero, usually requiring a day job, but sure, independent wealth (or a nest-egg, or a supportive spouse, or some source of passive income) makes the transition to writing full time easier, assuming it can be done at all. The same can be (and has been) said of founding a startup, or getting an advanced degree.
dannyr 6y ago
You are basically Amazon's ideal and loyal customer! Only consume things within Amazon's world. Fortunately, Cory Doctorow is an esteemed author that has enough avid fans who would buy his content even though it's not on Amazon.
- edanm 6y ago
  Why yes I am! I am a big fan of Amazon, or at the very least Audible. It has made my life much better, and in my experience they treat their customers very well. Of course I'm always happy when there's more competition :)
satvikpendem 6y ago
Interesting. I download all my audiobooks because I don't like Audible's player.
- edanm 6y ago
  Really? Interesting. What don't you like about Audible's player? And what player do you use instead?
  - satvikpendem 6y ago
    I use Voice Audiobook Player (actually a forked version) on Android because I can just load in audio files and play them, I don't have to deal with DRM or anything. I like it because it can go to 4x speed (with the forked version), most players only go to 2 or at most 3x.

by edanm 6y ago

mjburgess 6y ago

It's not clear to me that this is "sure to hurt". Whilst dressed up in the language of principle it is, in economic terms, just another creative whose reputation provides for a "pre-sold" market he is able to exploit for greater personal profit. Pretty standard: Louis CK was the first mover in comedy on this; pop artists are following. The "basic internet" works extremely well as a dumb & free distribution channel if you don't need to build an audience. I'm not saying Cory is insincere, but I am unconvinced his sincerity would hold were he a budding author. On the surface at least, it just reads like yet another artist hamstrung by their distributor whose reputation has superseded their need. If one were to be even more cynical, as Cory himself admits, you could see the whole anti-amazon complaint as a mere marketing tactic. It is, in any case, /why/ this has succeeded and why we are talking about it.

webmaven 6y ago
> I'm not saying Cory is insincere, but I am unconvinced his sincerity would hold were he a budding author. On the surface at least, it just reads like yet another artist hamstrung by their distributor whose reputation has superseded their need. Umm... Cory has been doing this sort of thing (such as releasing his novels as gratis+libre ebooks in multiple formats) from the very beginning (2003), eg.: https://craphound.com/down/download/ https://craphound.com/down/download/ You can find them freely (and legally) distributed by various 3rd parties: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/3826 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/3826 https://manybooks.net/authors/doctorow.html https://manybooks.net/authors/doctorow.html http://www.feedbooks.com/author/93 http://www.feedbooks.com/author/93
- mjburgess 6y ago
  You might find this a bit dismissive/cynical but i wonder whether that early phase can be explained also. There's two relevant strategies to an audience/market here: "open source" (/esteem/reputation) and "taste-maker"/brand/distributor. The free-to-read reputation-led strategy does not earn you anything in the early phase -- so you have to have a job elsewhere. But you build esteem/reputation more easily: more readers. If you do that well, you reap the rewards later by by-passing the taste-maker channels. This requires early-career funding from elsewhere. If you cannot get that funding you need to rely on distributors to earn anything at all. /Therefore/ I wonder whether this reputation-led anti-tastemaker ethos really is just selecting for wealth (of one kind or another). If so, yes Cory isn't a mere opportunist, sure. But his position seems to presuppose early-career privileges others do not have: in this sense he was never a "budding author" as I meantt it. My point was that as a person starting out /and relying on distributors for income/ you cannot really have this view.
  - webmaven 6y ago
    No "budding author" relies on their income from writing at the very beginning, since it is approximately zero, usually requiring a day job, but sure, independent wealth (or a nest-egg, or a supportive spouse, or some source of passive income) makes the transition to writing full time easier, assuming it can be done at all. The same can be (and has been) said of founding a startup, or getting an advanced degree.

dannyr 6y ago

You are basically Amazon's ideal and loyal customer! Only consume things within Amazon's world. Fortunately, Cory Doctorow is an esteemed author that has enough avid fans who would buy his content even though it's not on Amazon.

edanm 6y ago
Why yes I am! I am a big fan of Amazon, or at the very least Audible. It has made my life much better, and in my experience they treat their customers very well. Of course I'm always happy when there's more competition :)

satvikpendem 6y ago

Interesting. I download all my audiobooks because I don't like Audible's player.

edanm 6y ago
Really? Interesting. What don't you like about Audible's player? And what player do you use instead?
- satvikpendem 6y ago
  I use Voice Audiobook Player (actually a forked version) on Android because I can just load in audio files and play them, I don't have to deal with DRM or anything. I like it because it can go to 4x speed (with the forked version), most players only go to 2 or at most 3x.