4 ms·

Yes, I know it is in gcc. But compared to the AdaCore version, there are way too many bugs (at least when I played with it in 2018). And for any commercial ende

by sai_c 6y ago

Yes, I know it is in gcc. But compared to the AdaCore version, there are way too many bugs (at least when I played with it in 2018). And for any commercial endeavour (even if just a small company, say one or two developers) you really need the support contract (for fast bug fixing the compiler etc.). That's from my experience. Remember, it was about widespread adoption. With the above described small shop situation, there is no pricing that is payable by those shops. And the GPL 3 version does not help here. At least I haven't seen a solo developer going from "I created this amazing thing with the GPL version" to "I can now afford the commercial license of 20000€ per seat".

foerbert 6y ago
My experience is vastly different from yours. I've been using Ada as my main language for personal stuff for some years now... I can't quite recall when, but call it 5+ years? I won't say I've never run into some kind of problem with Ada on gcc (aka FSF GNAT), but it's been pretty minimal and easily avoided. I think it's been a grand total of two or three bugs that I've known of in that time. I've also run into known gcc bugs with C++ before so the situation doesn't seem particularly bad to me. I find it hard to believe a solo or duo dev shop has a real need for a support contract for their compiler. What language can you get a support contract for that is affordable by anyone?
- sai_c 6y ago
  As I said, I tried the FSF version at about 2018. Might be way better now, I don't know. My experience with gcc (C, not C++) for personal projects is exactly zero bugs. So, you see, experiences can differ ;-). When saying "you need the support contract" I mean getting the commercial compiler version. I think (theoretically?) AdaCore does not charge you for the compiler, but for support. And you only get access to the commercial compiler and libs if you have a support contract, no? I admit I might be one of those who does not completely understand the legal circus around GNAT, AdaCore and the FSF version. P.S.: You can get commercial support from IAR for the C compiler and RTOS, which is next to useless ;-).
  - foerbert 6y ago
    I mean, I was using FSF GNAT in 2018. And a few years before that, and some after it. I have a hard time imagining an experience even remotely described as unusable. I do wish AdaCore didn't leave the compiler situation so confusing. It's just enough to be a consistent distraction. Basically they all come from the same source. The GPL version gets a yearly release that, afaik is basically the commercial one (presumably not including anything customer specific). FSF then has a bit of a more ambiguous relationship with the GPL version, but AdaCore maintains that too. Probably around 2018 I think there was more effort being put into eliminating any remaining differences between the GPL and FSF versions. They also have some further libraries that are available. At least some (maybe all? I don't know) are available under the GPL too. I have no idea how the pricing on that stuff goes. That strays from the compiler side of things though.
    - sai_c 6y ago
      "I have a hard time imagining an experience even remotely described as unusable." Ok, so i should give FSF GNAT a try then. I always tried AdaCore's package. It's unfortunate that comp.lang.ada isn't available anymore. I think there were quite some not so fun bugs reported. Anyhow. I had a look at https://www.adacore.com/gnatpro/comparison https://www.adacore.com/gnatpro/comparison. What strikes me as odd is only support for x86 Windows/linux/MAC for the Community Edition. No ARM Linux (say Raspberry Pi)? That sure is not what it looks like, no? I really don't want to pester you, but did you ever use Ada in a commercial setting and can you share your experience if so? I'm generally interested in Ada (i have a look at it every year or so), but the consensus on comp.lang.ada always was "for commercial usage you really should buy a commercial license (no matter the project, no matter from which company)". Which more or less always meant AdaCore (some were suggesting Janus Ada, because of the moderate pricing) if you want an Ada compiler which supports the latest standard. Also, because AdaCore seems to be top dog in this area, with other vendors differing wildly in quality of compiler and libs. I don't know if any of this is true, but those were the vibes from comp.lang.ada i received.
      - foerbert 6y ago

by sai_c 6y ago

foerbert 6y ago

My experience is vastly different from yours. I've been using Ada as my main language for personal stuff for some years now... I can't quite recall when, but call it 5+ years? I won't say I've never run into some kind of problem with Ada on gcc (aka FSF GNAT), but it's been pretty minimal and easily avoided. I think it's been a grand total of two or three bugs that I've known of in that time. I've also run into known gcc bugs with C++ before so the situation doesn't seem particularly bad to me. I find it hard to believe a solo or duo dev shop has a real need for a support contract for their compiler. What language can you get a support contract for that is affordable by anyone?

sai_c 6y ago
As I said, I tried the FSF version at about 2018. Might be way better now, I don't know. My experience with gcc (C, not C++) for personal projects is exactly zero bugs. So, you see, experiences can differ ;-). When saying "you need the support contract" I mean getting the commercial compiler version. I think (theoretically?) AdaCore does not charge you for the compiler, but for support. And you only get access to the commercial compiler and libs if you have a support contract, no? I admit I might be one of those who does not completely understand the legal circus around GNAT, AdaCore and the FSF version. P.S.: You can get commercial support from IAR for the C compiler and RTOS, which is next to useless ;-).
- foerbert 6y ago
  I mean, I was using FSF GNAT in 2018. And a few years before that, and some after it. I have a hard time imagining an experience even remotely described as unusable. I do wish AdaCore didn't leave the compiler situation so confusing. It's just enough to be a consistent distraction. Basically they all come from the same source. The GPL version gets a yearly release that, afaik is basically the commercial one (presumably not including anything customer specific). FSF then has a bit of a more ambiguous relationship with the GPL version, but AdaCore maintains that too. Probably around 2018 I think there was more effort being put into eliminating any remaining differences between the GPL and FSF versions. They also have some further libraries that are available. At least some (maybe all? I don't know) are available under the GPL too. I have no idea how the pricing on that stuff goes. That strays from the compiler side of things though.
  - sai_c 6y ago
    "I have a hard time imagining an experience even remotely described as unusable." Ok, so i should give FSF GNAT a try then. I always tried AdaCore's package. It's unfortunate that comp.lang.ada isn't available anymore. I think there were quite some not so fun bugs reported. Anyhow. I had a look at https://www.adacore.com/gnatpro/comparison https://www.adacore.com/gnatpro/comparison. What strikes me as odd is only support for x86 Windows/linux/MAC for the Community Edition. No ARM Linux (say Raspberry Pi)? That sure is not what it looks like, no? I really don't want to pester you, but did you ever use Ada in a commercial setting and can you share your experience if so? I'm generally interested in Ada (i have a look at it every year or so), but the consensus on comp.lang.ada always was "for commercial usage you really should buy a commercial license (no matter the project, no matter from which company)". Which more or less always meant AdaCore (some were suggesting Janus Ada, because of the moderate pricing) if you want an Ada compiler which supports the latest standard. Also, because AdaCore seems to be top dog in this area, with other vendors differing wildly in quality of compiler and libs. I don't know if any of this is true, but those were the vibes from comp.lang.ada i received.
    - foerbert 6y ago