7 ms·

If you want your services to be in control of you, self-host everything. That way all of your weekends and nights are for updating to FreeBSD 14 and debugging w

If you want your services to be in control of you, self-host everything. That way all of your weekends and nights are for updating to FreeBSD 14 and debugging why postgres can't write to disk anymore oh wait I need to buy more storage and migrate everything

pcx 6y ago
I don't agree. There are a lot of services which provide fully managed platforms with multiple competent providers you can migrate between. WordPress + CPanel does a great job at this, I've seen barely technical folks manage multiple websites and blogs,export and restore backups, migrate between providers. And this was all 10years back.
- ethbr0 6y ago
  > And this was all 10years back. Thankfully, we've tossed all that old stuff out and simplified things with Docker and k8s.
  - rektide 6y ago
    Gonna suck for a while yes but long run there are real reasons for this jump from little daemons installed on to hosts to cloud native.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - throwawaynothx 6y ago
    "simplified" things with Docker and k8s.. if you are using docker for anything other than microservices and development environments you are doing it wrong.
    - judge2020 6y ago
      Containerd then? Containers predate docker in the form of VMs, the only difference being optimizations with not having to run another entire OS kernel to get software running in the exact same state on many machines in just a few seconds.
    - selfhoster11 6y ago
      Containers are substantially different to VMs, but in practice I see them as equivalent technologically and operationally for my home lab/self-hosting use cases (sans weaker security guarantees, but that I can live with). They are a simplification in practice, because I can toss everything into a bunch of Pis that stay on 24/7 rather than worry about the power use (and the power bills) that would come with using a more fully-featured rack server/old PC that has enough RAM to deal with multiple VMs.
  - martin_a 6y ago
    I sure hope you are joking. Not sure though. Other commenters seem to take you serious, too. Please clarify. :-D
    - tpxl 6y ago
      FreeNAS supports docker, so arguably, clicking download on some panel somewhere to get a working locally hosted [wordpress, game server, ...] is simplified.
aprdm 6y ago
It is really not that hard... I spent less time setting some nginx / letsencrypt than trying to configure google loadbalancer for static files with https and their blob storage... It likely will have a better uptime too and require less maintenance over the years
wolco 6y ago
Debugging? If you could write to disk and suddenly can't.. you are out of diskspace. If you can't tab complete you are out of diskspace. Migrating for additional storage? Why not add additional storage..
rektide 6y ago
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
- jhatemyjob 6y ago
  I have Corona
- polishdude20 6y ago
  Woah where's this from?
  - ajmurmann 6y ago
    Dune
- dividedbyzero 6y ago
  That is a nice quote, but not helpful. This is a scenario that can happen and does happen, and that needs to be taken into account. Running and supporting anything of appreciable complexity and keeping it secure and legal is not free. I self-host a bunch of things and I do feel this pain quite acutely at times. This can be a very strong argument in favor of SaaS snd should not just be brushed aside.
gonzo41 6y ago
ahh what. You mean running Hugo deploy to an S3 bucket with a cloudfront distribution infront. It costs like 2 bucks a month. If you're blogging your content is perfect for static site generators. And there's other options that can make it even more simpler than that.
- tastroder 6y ago
  Hugo, s3, cloudfront? That sounds neither simple, nor well suited, for a lot of use cases like the local bakery or artist that wants to maintain a site. Most of the static site generator ecosystem seems to be aimed at developers that want too dabble in solutions way oversized for the problem. I don't need global CDNs for a site that sees loads easily served by WordPress or some other non-sexy CMS on a single instance of a random HTTP server, I need a CMS that I can put on there in 5 minutes, create an account and let people administer content. Sure, I realize there's a) valid use cases and b) options for that in the SSG space but quite a lot of the development there seems like solutions for imaginary or self imposed problems the world at large has moved on from.
  - gonzo41 6y ago
    I agree that static site generators could really use some better quick start features. But i disagree that turning on WordPress is any less complex. There's a lot more moving parts that your responsible for with wordpress than having a folder full of markdown files. The benefit of a CDN is the fantasy it gives you of people reading your blog en mass. And also it's all managed elsewhere and they handle ssl for you easily. but you know hike your own hike and all that.
    - tastroder 6y ago
      That's fair, I guess I'm a bit biased there by the ecosystem I've been using for decades. I was just thinking of this old stack as a nice middle ground, it's so boring pretty much every hoster is good at managing the major moving parts without any lock in.
  - sebmellen 6y ago
dgellow 6y ago
You really don’t need a DB for a blog. Just write to the file system.
- Polylactic_acid 6y ago
  You don't even need that. I write my post as a markdown file, commit it, and then gitlab compiles it, hosts it and manages the certificate.
  - jonny383 6y ago
    Yes, let's remove our dependence on one corporation and instead put it into a far smaller and riskier one.
    - Polylactic_acid 6y ago
      Its completely portable. I can dump the same repo on github and it works or I can compile it myself and dump the files on any webserver.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  Or if you need a DB, then use SQLite. It's a file that's also a relational database, and it's better than any file scheme you can come up with for this purpose.
selfhoster11 6y ago
You can always pay for managed versions of these services if you want the piece of mind. NextCloud and email providers come to mind. Other than that, Docker has simplified things a lot in the self-hosting space. It's not quite as plug-and-play as Lego bricks yet, but it's made experimentation and sustainable self-hosting much easier as long as you're running on a supported platform. It's much easier to version the environment, much easier to keep the application runtime configuration clean, and much easier to move service instances across machines if you're too small to invest time in orchestration like K8s.

pcx 6y ago

I don't agree. There are a lot of services which provide fully managed platforms with multiple competent providers you can migrate between. WordPress + CPanel does a great job at this, I've seen barely technical folks manage multiple websites and blogs,export and restore backups, migrate between providers. And this was all 10years back.

ethbr0 6y ago
> And this was all 10years back. Thankfully, we've tossed all that old stuff out and simplified things with Docker and k8s.
- rektide 6y ago
  Gonna suck for a while yes but long run there are real reasons for this jump from little daemons installed on to hosts to cloud native.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- throwawaynothx 6y ago
  "simplified" things with Docker and k8s.. if you are using docker for anything other than microservices and development environments you are doing it wrong.
  - judge2020 6y ago
    Containerd then? Containers predate docker in the form of VMs, the only difference being optimizations with not having to run another entire OS kernel to get software running in the exact same state on many machines in just a few seconds.
  - selfhoster11 6y ago
    Containers are substantially different to VMs, but in practice I see them as equivalent technologically and operationally for my home lab/self-hosting use cases (sans weaker security guarantees, but that I can live with). They are a simplification in practice, because I can toss everything into a bunch of Pis that stay on 24/7 rather than worry about the power use (and the power bills) that would come with using a more fully-featured rack server/old PC that has enough RAM to deal with multiple VMs.
- martin_a 6y ago
  I sure hope you are joking. Not sure though. Other commenters seem to take you serious, too. Please clarify. :-D
  - tpxl 6y ago
    FreeNAS supports docker, so arguably, clicking download on some panel somewhere to get a working locally hosted [wordpress, game server, ...] is simplified.

aprdm 6y ago

It is really not that hard... I spent less time setting some nginx / letsencrypt than trying to configure google loadbalancer for static files with https and their blob storage... It likely will have a better uptime too and require less maintenance over the years

wolco 6y ago

Debugging? If you could write to disk and suddenly can't.. you are out of diskspace. If you can't tab complete you are out of diskspace. Migrating for additional storage? Why not add additional storage..

rektide 6y ago

Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

jhatemyjob 6y ago
I have Corona
polishdude20 6y ago
Woah where's this from?
- ajmurmann 6y ago
  Dune
dividedbyzero 6y ago
That is a nice quote, but not helpful. This is a scenario that can happen and does happen, and that needs to be taken into account. Running and supporting anything of appreciable complexity and keeping it secure and legal is not free. I self-host a bunch of things and I do feel this pain quite acutely at times. This can be a very strong argument in favor of SaaS snd should not just be brushed aside.

gonzo41 6y ago

ahh what. You mean running Hugo deploy to an S3 bucket with a cloudfront distribution infront. It costs like 2 bucks a month. If you're blogging your content is perfect for static site generators. And there's other options that can make it even more simpler than that.

tastroder 6y ago
Hugo, s3, cloudfront? That sounds neither simple, nor well suited, for a lot of use cases like the local bakery or artist that wants to maintain a site. Most of the static site generator ecosystem seems to be aimed at developers that want too dabble in solutions way oversized for the problem. I don't need global CDNs for a site that sees loads easily served by WordPress or some other non-sexy CMS on a single instance of a random HTTP server, I need a CMS that I can put on there in 5 minutes, create an account and let people administer content. Sure, I realize there's a) valid use cases and b) options for that in the SSG space but quite a lot of the development there seems like solutions for imaginary or self imposed problems the world at large has moved on from.
- gonzo41 6y ago
  I agree that static site generators could really use some better quick start features. But i disagree that turning on WordPress is any less complex. There's a lot more moving parts that your responsible for with wordpress than having a folder full of markdown files. The benefit of a CDN is the fantasy it gives you of people reading your blog en mass. And also it's all managed elsewhere and they handle ssl for you easily. but you know hike your own hike and all that.
  - tastroder 6y ago
    That's fair, I guess I'm a bit biased there by the ecosystem I've been using for decades. I was just thinking of this old stack as a nice middle ground, it's so boring pretty much every hoster is good at managing the major moving parts without any lock in.
- sebmellen 6y ago

dgellow 6y ago

You really don’t need a DB for a blog. Just write to the file system.

Polylactic_acid 6y ago
You don't even need that. I write my post as a markdown file, commit it, and then gitlab compiles it, hosts it and manages the certificate.
- jonny383 6y ago
  Yes, let's remove our dependence on one corporation and instead put it into a far smaller and riskier one.
  - Polylactic_acid 6y ago
    Its completely portable. I can dump the same repo on github and it works or I can compile it myself and dump the files on any webserver.
TeMPOraL 6y ago
Or if you need a DB, then use SQLite. It's a file that's also a relational database, and it's better than any file scheme you can come up with for this purpose.

selfhoster11 6y ago

You can always pay for managed versions of these services if you want the piece of mind. NextCloud and email providers come to mind. Other than that, Docker has simplified things a lot in the self-hosting space. It's not quite as plug-and-play as Lego bricks yet, but it's made experimentation and sustainable self-hosting much easier as long as you're running on a supported platform. It's much easier to version the environment, much easier to keep the application runtime configuration clean, and much easier to move service instances across machines if you're too small to invest time in orchestration like K8s.