8 ms·

It's actually exactly the opposite: based on the World Bank's preferred indicator for well-being (consumption), the bottom 20% in the US do better than the midd

by bhupy 6y ago

It's actually exactly the opposite: based on the World Bank's preferred indicator for well-being (consumption), the bottom 20% in the US do better than the middle class in most OECD countries. https://www.nber.org/chapters/c12831.pdf https://www.nber.org/chapters/c12831.pdf https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-richer-than-most-nations-of-europe/ https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-ric...

opportune 6y ago
Consumption is easy to measure but just because poor americans eat out and have iphones doesn't mean they have higher quality of life. Also that second website you linked is a Koch "think tank" aka propaganda vehicle, lol
- bhupy 6y ago
  Consumption is a proxy for access to resources, and is downstream of all transfers, which is why the World Bank uses it as the preferred metric for wellbeing. The second website just summarizes the first paper, which is primary source. For your sake, I recommend attacking the substance of the argument rather than the entity making the argument.
  - opportune 6y ago
    For your sake, I recommend attempting to convince people with more than a 44 page economics pdf and oil propaganda (that article literally has green energy as the number 1 reason for the consumption disparity). Thanks
benrbray 6y ago
I don't have time at the moment to read through 44 pages of dense economics, but can you explain why some people think "consumption" is the right choice? It sounds to me like "consumption" is approximately the same as "spending", which goes up whenever prices go up. Conflating consumption with wealth seems like a big mistake, if we are to truly evaluate the impact that materialism has on our long-term well being.
sumedh 6y ago
I am not going to read 44 pages. Why is the life expectancy lower in the US compared to developed countries?
- bhupy 6y ago
  You don’t have to read 44 pages, it’s on Table 6.5, under the consumption for the lowest quintile. The second source does that work for you by simply summarizing the primary source. Average life expectancy is lower for the same reason that average wealth in the US is higher than other countries: outliers. The US has a higher homicide rate, a higher car accident rate, a higher opioid death rate, and a higher obesity rate. So you’re slightly more likely to die earlier if by gun, car, OxyContin, or Big Macs, which brings down the average. https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2017/05/16/the-explanatory-power-of-drugs-car-accidents-and-homicides-on-us-life-expectancy-gaps/ https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2017/05/16/the-explanator... Critically, the average life expectancy tells us very little about the state of the median American, or even a lower quintile American who avoids drugs and happy meals, and takes the bus.
  - sumedh 6y ago
    Next time when you want to convey something make it direct. Table 6.5 is meaningless information if no one can directly reach it in a huge file. Try to to give the exact page number. Anyway I did waste my time to see what is on table 6.5, i see can year 2010, where is the more recent data? If more people are dying by drugs, OxyContin and big Macs does that mean these people dont get access to healthcare/emergency services because they are poor or they are not educated because they are poor? Isnt that a proxy to signal that people in other developed countries still have a better life compared to Americans?
    - bhupy 6y ago
      Hence why I recommend reading the second source, which does the work for you: https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-richer-than-most-nations-of-europe/ https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-ric... > If more people are dying by drugs, OxyContin and big Macs does that mean these people dont get access to healthcare/emergency services because they are poor or they are not educated because they are poor? It’s certainly reasonable conjecture, but there’s little evidence to suggest that lack of access to healthcare/emergency services is the root cause for the opioid epidemic. In fact, we now know the root cause to largely be the Purdue Sackler fraud — doctors were over-prescribing it. It’s ironically a proxy for abundant access to prescription medication. Big Macs aren’t a necessity, it is more than easy to buy cheap and healthy food at the grocery store. This is especially true when you’re poor, because food stamps are currently prohibited for use at fast food restaurants. > Isnt that a proxy to signal that people in other developed countries still have a better life compared to Americans? No, it’s a proxy to signal that there exist a lot of Americans that exhibit poor personal lifestyle, and that America disproportionately allows individuals to live like that. Indeed, the data shows that if you live in America, eat healthy, and avoid drugs, your standard of living is comparable to, if not better than other developed countries. In fact the median (PPP adjusted) disposable income in the US is among the highest in the developed world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_c...

by bhupy 6y ago

opportune 6y ago

Consumption is easy to measure but just because poor americans eat out and have iphones doesn't mean they have higher quality of life. Also that second website you linked is a Koch "think tank" aka propaganda vehicle, lol

bhupy 6y ago
Consumption is a proxy for access to resources, and is downstream of all transfers, which is why the World Bank uses it as the preferred metric for wellbeing. The second website just summarizes the first paper, which is primary source. For your sake, I recommend attacking the substance of the argument rather than the entity making the argument.
- opportune 6y ago
  For your sake, I recommend attempting to convince people with more than a 44 page economics pdf and oil propaganda (that article literally has green energy as the number 1 reason for the consumption disparity). Thanks

benrbray 6y ago

I don't have time at the moment to read through 44 pages of dense economics, but can you explain why some people think "consumption" is the right choice? It sounds to me like "consumption" is approximately the same as "spending", which goes up whenever prices go up. Conflating consumption with wealth seems like a big mistake, if we are to truly evaluate the impact that materialism has on our long-term well being.

sumedh 6y ago

I am not going to read 44 pages. Why is the life expectancy lower in the US compared to developed countries?

bhupy 6y ago
You don’t have to read 44 pages, it’s on Table 6.5, under the consumption for the lowest quintile. The second source does that work for you by simply summarizing the primary source. Average life expectancy is lower for the same reason that average wealth in the US is higher than other countries: outliers. The US has a higher homicide rate, a higher car accident rate, a higher opioid death rate, and a higher obesity rate. So you’re slightly more likely to die earlier if by gun, car, OxyContin, or Big Macs, which brings down the average. https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2017/05/16/the-explanatory-power-of-drugs-car-accidents-and-homicides-on-us-life-expectancy-gaps/ https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2017/05/16/the-explanator... Critically, the average life expectancy tells us very little about the state of the median American, or even a lower quintile American who avoids drugs and happy meals, and takes the bus.
- sumedh 6y ago
  Next time when you want to convey something make it direct. Table 6.5 is meaningless information if no one can directly reach it in a huge file. Try to to give the exact page number. Anyway I did waste my time to see what is on table 6.5, i see can year 2010, where is the more recent data? If more people are dying by drugs, OxyContin and big Macs does that mean these people dont get access to healthcare/emergency services because they are poor or they are not educated because they are poor? Isnt that a proxy to signal that people in other developed countries still have a better life compared to Americans?
  - bhupy 6y ago
    Hence why I recommend reading the second source, which does the work for you: https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-richer-than-most-nations-of-europe/ https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-ric... > If more people are dying by drugs, OxyContin and big Macs does that mean these people dont get access to healthcare/emergency services because they are poor or they are not educated because they are poor? It’s certainly reasonable conjecture, but there’s little evidence to suggest that lack of access to healthcare/emergency services is the root cause for the opioid epidemic. In fact, we now know the root cause to largely be the Purdue Sackler fraud — doctors were over-prescribing it. It’s ironically a proxy for abundant access to prescription medication. Big Macs aren’t a necessity, it is more than easy to buy cheap and healthy food at the grocery store. This is especially true when you’re poor, because food stamps are currently prohibited for use at fast food restaurants. > Isnt that a proxy to signal that people in other developed countries still have a better life compared to Americans? No, it’s a proxy to signal that there exist a lot of Americans that exhibit poor personal lifestyle, and that America disproportionately allows individuals to live like that. Indeed, the data shows that if you live in America, eat healthy, and avoid drugs, your standard of living is comparable to, if not better than other developed countries. In fact the median (PPP adjusted) disposable income in the US is among the highest in the developed world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_c...