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NASA needs a specialized unit because when it comes to large launches at Kennedy (144,000 acres), or Wallops (6,200 acres) they have to secure a significant amo

NASA needs a specialized unit because when it comes to large launches at Kennedy (144,000 acres), or Wallops (6,200 acres) they have to secure a significant amount of real estate. Terrorists and Nuts would love nothing more than use a surface-to-air missile against a launch. To head off that threat, you'd need real operators trained with small arms extensively, and not the contracted security most feds use. Kennedy looks like a mix of mangroves, swamp and dense terrain with gators in the water, and panthers about. Throw in a few extras at other locations to respond to an active shooter situation and that fits a fairly small team. As far as another agency providing that security, if you do launches regularly, and have to pay for all the travel and TDY, it would get expensive in a quick hurry. Better to keep in house, and pay local law enforcement to help out where needed for the truly big launches, as 33 operators wouldn't go far enough with that much territory to protect. Federal LE probably helps in those big launches too.

srtjstjsj 6y ago
> Terrorists and Nuts would love nothing more than use a surface-to-air missile against a launch. And yet never in history has that been attempted, despite the presence of suicide bombers.
- austincheney 6y ago
  That line of thinking destroyed the wealth of millions of people in the 2008 housing crash. So many people were certain it can’t happen only because it hasn’t happened.
  - craftinator 6y ago
    He's not saying it can't happen, he's pointing out that there is no historical justification for the protections they render.
- onetimemanytime 6y ago
  >>And yet never in history has that been attempted, despite the presence of suicide bombers. That, in itself is not really an argument. Nothing has been attempted until it happens.
- baud147258 6y ago
  well, finding and shipping a surface to air missile close to a launch site seems to be more complicated than finding a volunteer for a suicide attack, which can be done nearly everywhere. Also the current trend in terrorist attacks is the maximalisation of casualties, not necessarily property damage/symbolic targets
gpm 6y ago
NASA has some serious security concerns, but they're largely taken care of by the air force, coast guard, and friends. I'm sort of surprised to find out they have their own swat team when we're always hearing about "the coast guard helicopter finding a stray boat in the keep out zone" and so on.
- garmaine 6y ago
  A SWAT team used to raid the homes of widowed astronaut wives to steal back family heirlooms from the Moon. (I kid you not; google it.)
  - vmh1928 6y ago
    This one? quote: NASA investigators then arranged the sting, where Conley met with Davis and her current husband at the Denny's restaurant at Lake Elsinore in Riverside County. Soon after settling into a booth, Davis said, she pulled out the moon sample and about half a dozen sheriff's deputies and NASA investigators rushed into the eatery. /quote https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/granny-roughed-up-in-moon-rock-raid-1.1000391 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/granny-roughed-up-in-moon-rock...
    - garmaine 6y ago
      There’s more than one case. It’s a bit off to call it a “sting” though when the NASA inspector general is the only one that thinks a crime is actually taking place. Edit: to be clear, the IG is asserting in these cases either that the astronauts stole NASA property or that they illegally profited off of the mission (as later Apollo astronauts got in trouble for doing when they sold the personal effects they took with them). However in most of these cases it’s clear that (1) these weren’t misplaced samples, but rather an extra rock they picked up and kept, for which there’s no law against; and (2) they didn’t profit off it, but rather freely gave chips of the rock to their wives, girlfriends, children, close friends, or just kept as a momento. Now two generations later these Apollo era people are dying off and their estate is finding out that the little moon rock grandpa has is worth $10k/gram at auction, and trying to cash in. And when they do, NASA sends a SWAT team to their house.
wonder_er 6y ago
> Terrorists and Nuts would love nothing more than use a surface-to-air missile against a launch Please reference: Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire[0] The author argues that the US is creating the "terrorists and nuts" that the US is then protecting itself from. If the US was not hyper-interventionist on the world stage, there would be almost no terrorist threat. [0]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40709.Blowback https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40709.Blowback
- craftinator 6y ago
  It's really a fantastic business model, lots of synergy, very pro-growth!
- webmaven 6y ago
  > > Terrorists and Nuts would love nothing more than use a surface-to-air missile against a launch > Please reference: Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire[0] > The author argues that the US is creating the "terrorists and nuts" that the US is then protecting itself from. I suspect that the terrorists and nuts most interested in firing a SAM at a NASA launch would be of the domestic varieties.

srtjstjsj 6y ago

> Terrorists and Nuts would love nothing more than use a surface-to-air missile against a launch. And yet never in history has that been attempted, despite the presence of suicide bombers.

austincheney 6y ago
That line of thinking destroyed the wealth of millions of people in the 2008 housing crash. So many people were certain it can’t happen only because it hasn’t happened.
- craftinator 6y ago
  He's not saying it can't happen, he's pointing out that there is no historical justification for the protections they render.
onetimemanytime 6y ago
>>And yet never in history has that been attempted, despite the presence of suicide bombers. That, in itself is not really an argument. Nothing has been attempted until it happens.
baud147258 6y ago
well, finding and shipping a surface to air missile close to a launch site seems to be more complicated than finding a volunteer for a suicide attack, which can be done nearly everywhere. Also the current trend in terrorist attacks is the maximalisation of casualties, not necessarily property damage/symbolic targets

gpm 6y ago

NASA has some serious security concerns, but they're largely taken care of by the air force, coast guard, and friends. I'm sort of surprised to find out they have their own swat team when we're always hearing about "the coast guard helicopter finding a stray boat in the keep out zone" and so on.

garmaine 6y ago
A SWAT team used to raid the homes of widowed astronaut wives to steal back family heirlooms from the Moon. (I kid you not; google it.)
- vmh1928 6y ago
  This one? quote: NASA investigators then arranged the sting, where Conley met with Davis and her current husband at the Denny's restaurant at Lake Elsinore in Riverside County. Soon after settling into a booth, Davis said, she pulled out the moon sample and about half a dozen sheriff's deputies and NASA investigators rushed into the eatery. /quote https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/granny-roughed-up-in-moon-rock-raid-1.1000391 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/granny-roughed-up-in-moon-rock...
  - garmaine 6y ago
    There’s more than one case. It’s a bit off to call it a “sting” though when the NASA inspector general is the only one that thinks a crime is actually taking place. Edit: to be clear, the IG is asserting in these cases either that the astronauts stole NASA property or that they illegally profited off of the mission (as later Apollo astronauts got in trouble for doing when they sold the personal effects they took with them). However in most of these cases it’s clear that (1) these weren’t misplaced samples, but rather an extra rock they picked up and kept, for which there’s no law against; and (2) they didn’t profit off it, but rather freely gave chips of the rock to their wives, girlfriends, children, close friends, or just kept as a momento. Now two generations later these Apollo era people are dying off and their estate is finding out that the little moon rock grandpa has is worth $10k/gram at auction, and trying to cash in. And when they do, NASA sends a SWAT team to their house.

wonder_er 6y ago

> Terrorists and Nuts would love nothing more than use a surface-to-air missile against a launch Please reference: Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire[0] The author argues that the US is creating the "terrorists and nuts" that the US is then protecting itself from. If the US was not hyper-interventionist on the world stage, there would be almost no terrorist threat. [0]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40709.Blowback https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40709.Blowback

craftinator 6y ago
It's really a fantastic business model, lots of synergy, very pro-growth!
webmaven 6y ago
> > Terrorists and Nuts would love nothing more than use a surface-to-air missile against a launch > Please reference: Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire[0] > The author argues that the US is creating the "terrorists and nuts" that the US is then protecting itself from. I suspect that the terrorists and nuts most interested in firing a SAM at a NASA launch would be of the domestic varieties.