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That’s a tech-centric view. For most people a browser is defined by its features like tab handling, account syncing, preferences, extensions, etc. Nobody cares

That’s a tech-centric view. For most people a browser is defined by its features like tab handling, account syncing, preferences, extensions, etc. Nobody cares about the HTML engine, only developers. The fact that it’s possible to change the default browser is an important user-level feature.

gitua 6y ago
It's true, but I think that's not the point. It's not because people don't care that it won't impact them. Many people don't care about Privacy, Ecology, etc... yet it will have catastrophic consequences down the line. Similarly here, yes it's true people don't care about the web engine, yet given Mozilla situation and Microsoft who switched to chromium, the web is seriously not in a good shape and it will have consequences on the long term.
- Spivak 6y ago
  I mean the most likely effect of iOS allowing alternative browsers is even more Chrome dominance than already currently exists. The fact that a major platform forces developers to not just stop once it works in Chrome is probably a net benefit at this point.
  - gitua 6y ago
    Yes that's a fair point agreed . If every platform were like that then Mozilla would never have even existed, but Chrome gaining even more market wouldn't be great either
  - dismantlethesun 6y ago
    Not really... for me, iOS is a hard target, because all the non-default browsers (Chrome, Brave, Firefox) interact in different ways with the underlying engine that Safari provides. Bugs present in iOS browsers, won't be present in Android browsers even if the browser version is the same which makes debugging harder. For example, it turns having 3 targets (Chrome, Firefox, Safari...) into 5 targets (Chrome Android, Chrome ioS, Firefox Android, Firefox iOS, Safari iOS). Differences between mobile/desktop browser are relatively minor in comparison. On the Chrome side, there's fragmentation from all the browser that just wrap Chrome like Samsung Internet and QQ, but those are greatly mitigated by having up to date apps or are region specific so won't apply if your business doesn't do business in China.
sexpositivepriv 6y ago
It is not remotely a tech centric view. People want things to work. Stuff doesn't work in Safari because it's missing features. User's also want to pay less. PWAs let companies skip the app store and therefore skip paying apple 30% of their transactions which means cheaper prices for users. If apple allowed other browser engines those engines would have PWA support.
- Razengan 6y ago
  > User's also want to pay less. If that's all they wanted they would buy an Android. > PWAs let companies skip the app store and therefore skip paying apple 30% of their transactions which means cheaper prices for users. Exactly, this is what this is all about: companies wanting to milk users for more money and maximize their own profits, not that they actually care about the users.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

gitua 6y ago

It's true, but I think that's not the point. It's not because people don't care that it won't impact them. Many people don't care about Privacy, Ecology, etc... yet it will have catastrophic consequences down the line. Similarly here, yes it's true people don't care about the web engine, yet given Mozilla situation and Microsoft who switched to chromium, the web is seriously not in a good shape and it will have consequences on the long term.

Spivak 6y ago
I mean the most likely effect of iOS allowing alternative browsers is even more Chrome dominance than already currently exists. The fact that a major platform forces developers to not just stop once it works in Chrome is probably a net benefit at this point.
- gitua 6y ago
  Yes that's a fair point agreed . If every platform were like that then Mozilla would never have even existed, but Chrome gaining even more market wouldn't be great either
- dismantlethesun 6y ago
  Not really... for me, iOS is a hard target, because all the non-default browsers (Chrome, Brave, Firefox) interact in different ways with the underlying engine that Safari provides. Bugs present in iOS browsers, won't be present in Android browsers even if the browser version is the same which makes debugging harder. For example, it turns having 3 targets (Chrome, Firefox, Safari...) into 5 targets (Chrome Android, Chrome ioS, Firefox Android, Firefox iOS, Safari iOS). Differences between mobile/desktop browser are relatively minor in comparison. On the Chrome side, there's fragmentation from all the browser that just wrap Chrome like Samsung Internet and QQ, but those are greatly mitigated by having up to date apps or are region specific so won't apply if your business doesn't do business in China.

sexpositivepriv 6y ago

It is not remotely a tech centric view. People want things to work. Stuff doesn't work in Safari because it's missing features. User's also want to pay less. PWAs let companies skip the app store and therefore skip paying apple 30% of their transactions which means cheaper prices for users. If apple allowed other browser engines those engines would have PWA support.

Razengan 6y ago
> User's also want to pay less. If that's all they wanted they would buy an Android. > PWAs let companies skip the app store and therefore skip paying apple 30% of their transactions which means cheaper prices for users. Exactly, this is what this is all about: companies wanting to milk users for more money and maximize their own profits, not that they actually care about the users.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]