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If Apple had a dominant market position in smartphones then one could argue that end customers don't have much of a choice, but Apple only has at most 50% marke

by baddox 6y ago

If Apple had a dominant market position in smartphones then one could argue that end customers don't have much of a choice, but Apple only has at most 50% market share in the US and much lower globally. For my own smartphone usage I would much rather Apple choosing which features and APIs that third-party developers (of apps and websites) can use rather than those developers being able to do whatever they want. I think it's pretty clear that developers tends to have a much more hostile relationship with their end users than Apple does with their customers.

romanoderoma 6y ago
The argument is not about market domination, but about money power Apple market is rich, it is the richest tech company, with the highest market valuation ever, one cannot avoid it So it's gonna drive adoption no matter what Like it did for Flash (right or wrong, they did it) I was writing web applications during the 90s, they were called intranets back then, IE wasn't bad, it was simply unavoidable And being unavoidable halted competition for more than a decade On another side: having a platform that doesn't obey to common standards creates tech segregation I remember seeing japanes phones 20 years ago, they were ahead of time,but unusable outside of Japan Last but not least, having a flag that says "allow me to shoot myself in the foot of I want to" it's less hostile than "you don't know what you're doing let me handle it for you"
- tekknik 6y ago
  So then write for all browsers, support what you can for each, and don’t promote Chrome anymore? If you continue to promote a one size fits all browser and the market moves that way then we’ll shortly be having this same discussion about Google. If you were writing websites in the 90s you should know this.
  - romanoderoma 6y ago
    > So then write for all browsers, support what you can for each, and don’t promote Chrome anymore? WOW That escalated quickly I never promoted Chrome, in fact I'm an old time Firefox users and in the 90s I owned a Netscape 3 gold license. I don't write fronted software anymore, but writing for every browser means adhering to the standard Apple has steered away more than any other vendor lately So...
    - tekknik 6y ago
      > I don't write fronted software anymore, but writing for every browser means adhering to the standard. Yes, which you’ll find if you do Safari adheres to quite well. Finding examples where it doesn’t is easy, just like on chrome. Which is why we have media queries and poly fills because it’s simply impossible to have a unified platform without one entity owning it. If you found out Chrome doesn’t render the same on linux as it doesn’t on windows, would you call this not adhering to the standard?
      - chinesempire 6y ago
        > Yes, which you’ll find if you do Safari adheres to quite well They don' t Apple refused to implement 16 web API in Safari > Which is why we have media queries and poly fills because it’s simply impossible to have a unified platform And that' s why big players like Apple hat control a closed ecosystem shouldn't be allowed to be assholes At least on Android I can install other browsers and other browser engines Do you see the difference? > Chrome doesn’t render the same on linux as it doesn’t on windows that' s not true Windows and Linux that have simply different font rendering engines and different native widgets That's all > would you call this not adhering to the standard? absolutely NOT! In no part of the standard rendering is formalized It wouldn't make sense The way things are rendered is standardized, not the way they should look https://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-html5-20141028/rendering.html https://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-html5-20141028/rendering.html > HTML is intended to apply to multiple media (it is a media-independent language). User agent implementors are encouraged to adapt the suggestions in this section to their target media.
        tekknik 6y ago
        > Apple refused to implement 16 web API in Safari OK and these APIs don’t stop real work. > And that' s why big players like Apple hat control a closed ecosystem shouldn't be allowed to be assholes And putting all that power into the hands of a single browser will not end well, so stop promoting Chrome or saying other browsers should be like Chrome. FF isn’t going to win. > At least on Android I can install other browsers and other browser engines Do you see the difference? Yes, next question, do I care? > that' s not true 100% true, read the dev blogs and understand the WM on linux is fundamentally different than windows or mac, therefore rendering is not exactly the same. Standards help align, they do not force alignment. If safari implemented a p element as a span, then this is not following the spec. Choosing not to implement a portion of a modular spec, is still following the spec.

by baddox 6y ago

romanoderoma 6y ago

The argument is not about market domination, but about money power Apple market is rich, it is the richest tech company, with the highest market valuation ever, one cannot avoid it So it's gonna drive adoption no matter what Like it did for Flash (right or wrong, they did it) I was writing web applications during the 90s, they were called intranets back then, IE wasn't bad, it was simply unavoidable And being unavoidable halted competition for more than a decade On another side: having a platform that doesn't obey to common standards creates tech segregation I remember seeing japanes phones 20 years ago, they were ahead of time,but unusable outside of Japan Last but not least, having a flag that says "allow me to shoot myself in the foot of I want to" it's less hostile than "you don't know what you're doing let me handle it for you"

tekknik 6y ago
So then write for all browsers, support what you can for each, and don’t promote Chrome anymore? If you continue to promote a one size fits all browser and the market moves that way then we’ll shortly be having this same discussion about Google. If you were writing websites in the 90s you should know this.
- romanoderoma 6y ago
  > So then write for all browsers, support what you can for each, and don’t promote Chrome anymore? WOW That escalated quickly I never promoted Chrome, in fact I'm an old time Firefox users and in the 90s I owned a Netscape 3 gold license. I don't write fronted software anymore, but writing for every browser means adhering to the standard Apple has steered away more than any other vendor lately So...
  - tekknik 6y ago
    > I don't write fronted software anymore, but writing for every browser means adhering to the standard. Yes, which you’ll find if you do Safari adheres to quite well. Finding examples where it doesn’t is easy, just like on chrome. Which is why we have media queries and poly fills because it’s simply impossible to have a unified platform without one entity owning it. If you found out Chrome doesn’t render the same on linux as it doesn’t on windows, would you call this not adhering to the standard?
    - chinesempire 6y ago
      > Yes, which you’ll find if you do Safari adheres to quite well They don' t Apple refused to implement 16 web API in Safari > Which is why we have media queries and poly fills because it’s simply impossible to have a unified platform And that' s why big players like Apple hat control a closed ecosystem shouldn't be allowed to be assholes At least on Android I can install other browsers and other browser engines Do you see the difference? > Chrome doesn’t render the same on linux as it doesn’t on windows that' s not true Windows and Linux that have simply different font rendering engines and different native widgets That's all > would you call this not adhering to the standard? absolutely NOT! In no part of the standard rendering is formalized It wouldn't make sense The way things are rendered is standardized, not the way they should look https://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-html5-20141028/rendering.html https://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-html5-20141028/rendering.html > HTML is intended to apply to multiple media (it is a media-independent language). User agent implementors are encouraged to adapt the suggestions in this section to their target media.
      - tekknik 6y ago
        > Apple refused to implement 16 web API in Safari OK and these APIs don’t stop real work. > And that' s why big players like Apple hat control a closed ecosystem shouldn't be allowed to be assholes And putting all that power into the hands of a single browser will not end well, so stop promoting Chrome or saying other browsers should be like Chrome. FF isn’t going to win. > At least on Android I can install other browsers and other browser engines Do you see the difference? Yes, next question, do I care? > that' s not true 100% true, read the dev blogs and understand the WM on linux is fundamentally different than windows or mac, therefore rendering is not exactly the same. Standards help align, they do not force alignment. If safari implemented a p element as a span, then this is not following the spec. Choosing not to implement a portion of a modular spec, is still following the spec.