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> Sounds like you need to reevaluate your following distance If I didn't care, I would not brake, don't you think? At 30kmh bike brakes are more efficient At

> Sounds like you need to reevaluate your following distance If I didn't care, I would not brake, don't you think? At 30kmh bike brakes are more efficient At 30kmh every second an object moves about 8 and a half meters > It is 100% your responsibility as the following vehicle to not rear end someone So you are betting your life on someone else's sense of responsibility? I wish I was as optimistic as you are!

mulmen 6y ago
> If I didn't care, I would not brake, don't you think? You're missing the point. If you have to brake suddenly in a corner for a motorcycle you made a mistake and were following too close. You should change your behavior in the future. > At 30kmh bike brakes are more efficient Except they can't be used effectively while turning. > So you are betting your life on someone else's sense of responsibility? I was very clear about this. I assume you will fail in your responsibility. This is why I am willing to break the law to be safe.
- romanoderoma 6y ago
  Who said suddenly? I just said I have to. For the sake of someone else's safety Most of the times I have to because the biker (motor or not) approached the turn at a far greater speed then they could handle Don't build up expectations, if you can't keep them I guess you never witnessed a bike surpassing you on the right side of a turn, like they were on a race track, just to stop in front of you when they realise there is some kind of blockage or it is a slow turn and it's not the car in front of them that it's trying to slow then down on purpose Try to keep the distances when they jump in front of you from nowhere... > This is why I am willing to break the law to be safe. So you are making someone else unsafe, possibly a woman with a stroller, to keep you safe? That's not what I call being responsible...
  - mulmen 6y ago
    > So you are making someone else unsafe, possibly a woman with a stroller, to keep you safe? No? If I ride my bicycle on the sidewalk it is at basically walking speed so as not to endanger pedestrians. If I lane split my motorcycle the woman and stroller would have to be in traffic to be at any risk.
    - romanoderoma 6y ago
      You are still doing something unlawful betting that everything's gonna be ok What's the difference with a moped or a motorbike doing the same?
      - alanfranz 6y ago
        It's very unlikely that a bicycle could kill anyone. A motorbike or moped could, and very easily. Breaking the same law, but with rather different outcomes.
        romanoderoma 6y ago
        There are 40 million cars in Italy (not counting other kind of vehicles) There have been 612 pedestrian deaths in 2018. Not accounting for the context and only counting cars. stats just count the number of pedestrians hit and dead, they could have been hit by a bicycle as far as we know. It's 15 every million cars. That's not very likely as well.
        alanfranz 6y ago
        > stats just count the number of pedestrians hit and dead, they could have been hit by a bicycle as far as we know. Very unlikely, unless it's something that happens in Italy only. I found that in the UK, with a comparable populations, incidents where pedestrians die are and a bike is involved (with no info on who's at fault) are about 4 per year. Similar data is available in other nations, AFAIK. And, as you state, you can only think a bike being dangerous for a pedestrian, so you're forgetting the whole amount of deaths on the road. In 2018 there have been 3,300 road-related deaths in Italy. Since cyclists can only kill pedestrians (unless a very rare event occurs), they account for ... 0.002% of road deaths? I think it's quite clear that cyclists can easily get injured if they break road rules; and being hit by a bicycle is far less serious than being hit by a motorcycle or by a car at the same speed, right? This is less and less true as the size of the vehicle increases. The kind of punishment you get for an illegal act should be proportional to how serious is your infringement. I despise "cicloamatori" as well, since they fill up roads for no reasons and they overtake me with 5cms clearance; but, on italian roads, as a bike commuter, I sometimes feel compelled to break some rules, at my own risk, either to increase my safety, or to make my bike trip reasonable (because some roads are impossible to use when on a bike). I agree that some behaviours by some cyclists show a total disregard for their integrity and law. I think I've never took a street in the wrong direction in my whole life. And I would NOT expect cars to slow down or stop because I'm happily breaking the law just because I'm on a bike! If I'm on a sidewalk and ANY pedestrian approaches, I stop and I let them pass FIRST. But, let's put things in perspective. Cyclists pay for their mistakes AND for others' mistakes with their own blood. But their contribution to road deaths and injuries is non-existent. Refs: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/863550/cyclist-killed-bicycle-accident-two-pedestrians-every-week https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/863550/cyclist-killed-bicy...

mulmen 6y ago

> If I didn't care, I would not brake, don't you think? You're missing the point. If you have to brake suddenly in a corner for a motorcycle you made a mistake and were following too close. You should change your behavior in the future. > At 30kmh bike brakes are more efficient Except they can't be used effectively while turning. > So you are betting your life on someone else's sense of responsibility? I was very clear about this. I assume you will fail in your responsibility. This is why I am willing to break the law to be safe.

romanoderoma 6y ago
Who said suddenly? I just said I have to. For the sake of someone else's safety Most of the times I have to because the biker (motor or not) approached the turn at a far greater speed then they could handle Don't build up expectations, if you can't keep them I guess you never witnessed a bike surpassing you on the right side of a turn, like they were on a race track, just to stop in front of you when they realise there is some kind of blockage or it is a slow turn and it's not the car in front of them that it's trying to slow then down on purpose Try to keep the distances when they jump in front of you from nowhere... > This is why I am willing to break the law to be safe. So you are making someone else unsafe, possibly a woman with a stroller, to keep you safe? That's not what I call being responsible...
- mulmen 6y ago
  > So you are making someone else unsafe, possibly a woman with a stroller, to keep you safe? No? If I ride my bicycle on the sidewalk it is at basically walking speed so as not to endanger pedestrians. If I lane split my motorcycle the woman and stroller would have to be in traffic to be at any risk.
  - romanoderoma 6y ago
    You are still doing something unlawful betting that everything's gonna be ok What's the difference with a moped or a motorbike doing the same?
    - alanfranz 6y ago
      It's very unlikely that a bicycle could kill anyone. A motorbike or moped could, and very easily. Breaking the same law, but with rather different outcomes.
      - romanoderoma 6y ago
        There are 40 million cars in Italy (not counting other kind of vehicles) There have been 612 pedestrian deaths in 2018. Not accounting for the context and only counting cars. stats just count the number of pedestrians hit and dead, they could have been hit by a bicycle as far as we know. It's 15 every million cars. That's not very likely as well.
        alanfranz 6y ago
        > stats just count the number of pedestrians hit and dead, they could have been hit by a bicycle as far as we know. Very unlikely, unless it's something that happens in Italy only. I found that in the UK, with a comparable populations, incidents where pedestrians die are and a bike is involved (with no info on who's at fault) are about 4 per year. Similar data is available in other nations, AFAIK. And, as you state, you can only think a bike being dangerous for a pedestrian, so you're forgetting the whole amount of deaths on the road. In 2018 there have been 3,300 road-related deaths in Italy. Since cyclists can only kill pedestrians (unless a very rare event occurs), they account for ... 0.002% of road deaths? I think it's quite clear that cyclists can easily get injured if they break road rules; and being hit by a bicycle is far less serious than being hit by a motorcycle or by a car at the same speed, right? This is less and less true as the size of the vehicle increases. The kind of punishment you get for an illegal act should be proportional to how serious is your infringement. I despise "cicloamatori" as well, since they fill up roads for no reasons and they overtake me with 5cms clearance; but, on italian roads, as a bike commuter, I sometimes feel compelled to break some rules, at my own risk, either to increase my safety, or to make my bike trip reasonable (because some roads are impossible to use when on a bike). I agree that some behaviours by some cyclists show a total disregard for their integrity and law. I think I've never took a street in the wrong direction in my whole life. And I would NOT expect cars to slow down or stop because I'm happily breaking the law just because I'm on a bike! If I'm on a sidewalk and ANY pedestrian approaches, I stop and I let them pass FIRST. But, let's put things in perspective. Cyclists pay for their mistakes AND for others' mistakes with their own blood. But their contribution to road deaths and injuries is non-existent. Refs: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/863550/cyclist-killed-bicycle-accident-two-pedestrians-every-week https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/863550/cyclist-killed-bicy...