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> If neither of the above happen, you should trade absurdity for more salary/growth. I've seen this at places such as hedge funds and consultancies and they com

> If neither of the above happen, you should trade absurdity for more salary/growth. I've seen this at places such as hedge funds and consultancies and they compensate and "pay" for it with better comp and growth. I traded stupidity for money. Don't do it.

TuringNYC 6y ago
Highly recommended read: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-steps-to-better-code/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-s... My recommendation: try to evaluate your employer on the above. I've traded stupidity for money for money earlier in my life, and it made sense. But people underestimate the break-even. You deserve a lot of money (50% or 75% premium) for some of the stupidity I've seen. On the flip side, i've also traded a salary discount for a well-run org -- a job where i have 90min max meetings a day with lots of good ASYNC communications, good project planning, estimation, and good sprint cadences. I work a lot, but only when I want to (often late nights), bike outside when I want to, work heads-down w/o disturbances, etc. Just be careful when headhunters come offering a 10 or 15% increase in comp except w/ a very different culture. You have to compare like to like.
- hobofan 6y ago
  > My recommendation: try to evaluate your employer on the above. And better do it in a nuanced way, not the yes/no checkmarks that Stackoverflow Jobs is using for those points. I've worked for companies that were a mess and would get 11/12, as they _technically_ were using source control and tracking bugs etc., just in the most unproductive/useless way.
  - WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
    > I've worked for companies that were a mess and would get 11/12, as they _technically_ were using source control and tracking bugs etc., just in the most unproductive/useless way. ie: Security Auditing Style...
- jnwatson 6y ago
  I think the Joel test is table stakes now. I simple cannot imagine working in a situation where they are not true.
  - kelnos 6y ago
    1 through 4 and 11 are table stakes, but I think most orgs are missing various bits from the other 7.
Igelau 6y ago
You didn't trade high enough!

TuringNYC 6y ago

Highly recommended read: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-steps-to-better-code/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-s... My recommendation: try to evaluate your employer on the above. I've traded stupidity for money for money earlier in my life, and it made sense. But people underestimate the break-even. You deserve a lot of money (50% or 75% premium) for some of the stupidity I've seen. On the flip side, i've also traded a salary discount for a well-run org -- a job where i have 90min max meetings a day with lots of good ASYNC communications, good project planning, estimation, and good sprint cadences. I work a lot, but only when I want to (often late nights), bike outside when I want to, work heads-down w/o disturbances, etc. Just be careful when headhunters come offering a 10 or 15% increase in comp except w/ a very different culture. You have to compare like to like.

hobofan 6y ago
> My recommendation: try to evaluate your employer on the above. And better do it in a nuanced way, not the yes/no checkmarks that Stackoverflow Jobs is using for those points. I've worked for companies that were a mess and would get 11/12, as they _technically_ were using source control and tracking bugs etc., just in the most unproductive/useless way.
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
  > I've worked for companies that were a mess and would get 11/12, as they _technically_ were using source control and tracking bugs etc., just in the most unproductive/useless way. ie: Security Auditing Style...
jnwatson 6y ago
I think the Joel test is table stakes now. I simple cannot imagine working in a situation where they are not true.
- kelnos 6y ago
  1 through 4 and 11 are table stakes, but I think most orgs are missing various bits from the other 7.

Igelau 6y ago

You didn't trade high enough!