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I'm really not sure if this is meant as an insult or not, but I'll take it as respectful. Wearing my high-bypass N95 mask, or a sloppy ill-fitting "surgical" m

I'm really not sure if this is meant as an insult or not, but I'll take it as respectful. Wearing my high-bypass N95 mask, or a sloppy ill-fitting "surgical" mask or an un-rated cloth mask around a vulnerable person with multiple comorbidities is a dangerous show of virtue-signalling: it does essentially nothing to protect that individual. Encouraging vulnerable people to wear a powered HEPA ventilator on their hip, connected to a full face mask would be useful. Not perfect, but statistically 100x-1000x better outcome, should they be unfortunately exposed to a cloud of SARS-CoV-2 bearing particulates. Isn't a hundred bucks a worthwhile investment to actually protect a vulnerable person? Forcing people to do worthless things (wear masks, when they have no comorbidities, which do nothing to protect the vulnerable) is ridiculous, and is rightly held in contempt by many caring people. Its very strange, to me, that even on a platform like HN, we get many (most?) accounts involved in denigrating entire groups by name-calling them "deniers" -- without actually materially addressing any of the concerns of the individuals within the "group"...

TomSwirly 6y ago
> virtue-signalling [...] Forcing people to do worthless things (wear masks, Hello! Would you take your right-wing cant elsewhere, please? Decent people are thoroughly sick of the likes of you right now, I'm sorry to say. Two hundred thousand are dead, thanks to people spreading unscientific lies like your unsourced claims above, and the rest of us, who haven't gone mad and decided all of science and medicine are wrong, wish you could go back to your death cult and stop screaming at the rest of us. Thanks, and have the day you deserve!
- pjkundert 6y ago
  No comment on the HEPA ventilator, then? :) My father is significantly at risk; I'd much rather he wear an inexpensive HEPA ventilator (99.97%+ vs. 95% suppression, fresh air, ...), than even an N95. Wouldn't you? And what exactly to "people like me" deserve? I'm used to being hated by both right- and left-wing people, so I'm OK -- but who's going to give "it" to me? Edit: FYI: https://www.hamilton-medical.com/en_US/E-Learning-and-Education/Knowledge-Base/Knowledge-Base-Detail~2020-03-18~Efficiency-of-HEPA-filters~d5358f88-753e-4644-91c6-5c7b862e941f~.html https://www.hamilton-medical.com/en_US/E-Learning-and-Educat... Note especially the effectiveness of HEPA vs. particulates in the size range of SARS-CoV-2... If this is rated HEPA in the US, this must provide 99.97%+ filtration in the "worst" particulate size, 0.3micron, and apparently even better in the .06 to .2 micron SARS virus size: https://www.amazon.ca/AirPro-Rechargeable-Electrical-Purifying-Respirator/dp/B07YWLBVF2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=hepa+respirator+mask&qid=1600290517&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.ca/AirPro-Rechargeable-Electrical-Purifyi... Its a hundred bucks... Why not opt for this option for people at high risk from viral respiratory illnesses? Why the push-back, here?
- dang 6y ago
  You can't attack another user like this regardless of how wrong they are or how strongly you disagree. We ban accounts that do this, so please don't do it again. Please also stop using HN for ideological battle, as it makes the threads predictable and nasty. That's in the site guidelines. You've unfortunately been breaking the site guidelines repeatedly. However, you've also posted some good comments, so I'm not going to ban you—but if you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the spirit of this site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
  - pvg 6y ago
    It's righteous moderation but it's also probably past time for 'virtue signaling' to go into the 'whataboutism' box.
hinkley 6y ago
I can never be certain whether someone is arguing in bad faith on purpose, or as a consequence of letting the Perfect be the Enemy of the Good. Do you think refusing to visit grandma because you don't think your face mask will protect her is a self-actualization need? Sounds like a group safety need to me. Your choice of examples reads more like equivocation (conflating two things with similar features) which is generally a no-no in public debate circles. The evidence still supports the idea that prophylaxis at the point source is an order more effective than prophylaxis at the sink, and they are not mutually exclusive. The Precautionary Principle means you do cheap things that may not work or even be necessary, but the cost of being wrong is so high that it doesn't matter how low the probability is. It's not a waste of resources. It's hedging. If I had to be in a room with her and there was only one mask, I'd wear it instead of giving it to grandma. But why the hell am I in this situation to begin with?

TomSwirly 6y ago

> virtue-signalling [...] Forcing people to do worthless things (wear masks, Hello! Would you take your right-wing cant elsewhere, please? Decent people are thoroughly sick of the likes of you right now, I'm sorry to say. Two hundred thousand are dead, thanks to people spreading unscientific lies like your unsourced claims above, and the rest of us, who haven't gone mad and decided all of science and medicine are wrong, wish you could go back to your death cult and stop screaming at the rest of us. Thanks, and have the day you deserve!

pjkundert 6y ago
No comment on the HEPA ventilator, then? :) My father is significantly at risk; I'd much rather he wear an inexpensive HEPA ventilator (99.97%+ vs. 95% suppression, fresh air, ...), than even an N95. Wouldn't you? And what exactly to "people like me" deserve? I'm used to being hated by both right- and left-wing people, so I'm OK -- but who's going to give "it" to me? Edit: FYI: https://www.hamilton-medical.com/en_US/E-Learning-and-Education/Knowledge-Base/Knowledge-Base-Detail~2020-03-18~Efficiency-of-HEPA-filters~d5358f88-753e-4644-91c6-5c7b862e941f~.html https://www.hamilton-medical.com/en_US/E-Learning-and-Educat... Note especially the effectiveness of HEPA vs. particulates in the size range of SARS-CoV-2... If this is rated HEPA in the US, this must provide 99.97%+ filtration in the "worst" particulate size, 0.3micron, and apparently even better in the .06 to .2 micron SARS virus size: https://www.amazon.ca/AirPro-Rechargeable-Electrical-Purifying-Respirator/dp/B07YWLBVF2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=hepa+respirator+mask&qid=1600290517&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.ca/AirPro-Rechargeable-Electrical-Purifyi... Its a hundred bucks... Why not opt for this option for people at high risk from viral respiratory illnesses? Why the push-back, here?
dang 6y ago
You can't attack another user like this regardless of how wrong they are or how strongly you disagree. We ban accounts that do this, so please don't do it again. Please also stop using HN for ideological battle, as it makes the threads predictable and nasty. That's in the site guidelines. You've unfortunately been breaking the site guidelines repeatedly. However, you've also posted some good comments, so I'm not going to ban you—but if you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the spirit of this site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- pvg 6y ago
  It's righteous moderation but it's also probably past time for 'virtue signaling' to go into the 'whataboutism' box.

hinkley 6y ago

I can never be certain whether someone is arguing in bad faith on purpose, or as a consequence of letting the Perfect be the Enemy of the Good. Do you think refusing to visit grandma because you don't think your face mask will protect her is a self-actualization need? Sounds like a group safety need to me. Your choice of examples reads more like equivocation (conflating two things with similar features) which is generally a no-no in public debate circles. The evidence still supports the idea that prophylaxis at the point source is an order more effective than prophylaxis at the sink, and they are not mutually exclusive. The Precautionary Principle means you do cheap things that may not work or even be necessary, but the cost of being wrong is so high that it doesn't matter how low the probability is. It's not a waste of resources. It's hedging. If I had to be in a room with her and there was only one mask, I'd wear it instead of giving it to grandma. But why the hell am I in this situation to begin with?