4 ms·

Right -- in those "civilized" countries (you probably mean the higher income European countries?) the total pay is just 20 Euros an hour net of taxes, so softwa

Right -- in those "civilized" countries (you probably mean the higher income European countries?) the total pay is just 20 Euros an hour net of taxes, so software engineers' salaries even with overtime don't match the US. But at least your boss can't play these games.

est31 6y ago
Switzerland is kind of an exception to that, but their market is pretty small.
fxtentacle 6y ago
For skilled programmers, pay in Germany tends to be $5k to $6k per month after all taxes and the highest level of health insurance and a generous retirement insurance and disability and private unemployment insurance (additional to the government one). That is enough for an entire family to rent a house and live a very comfortable life pretty much everywhere in Germany, except maybe Munich city center. There are strong overtime protections, I've heard from people who were paid 4x their regular salary because they were called in on a Sunday. I'm sure the FAANG pay better, but maybe house + family + free time is nicer than high numbers in your online banking?
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  The US is pretty awesome if you're in the top 10%. Of course, more than 10% of the US population likes to believe they are in the top 10% or have a chance at being in the top 10% in the future.
orf 6y ago
You’re only fooling yourself if you look at the raw values rather than quality of life and relative cost of living.
- est31 6y ago
  You could live in the US for a few years, and then come back to Germany so that you can e.g. buy a house without having to pay for it for decades.
ThePadawan 6y ago
Here are the two markets I was comparing: Seattle salaries: https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Greater-Seattle-Area/ https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Greater-Se... Switzerland salaries: https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Switzerland/ https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Switzerlan... Cost-of-living Seattle vs. Zurich: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Switzerland&city1=Seattle%2C+WA&city2=Zurich https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou... Income tax burden in Seattle @200k p.a. was 26.28% in 2019: https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes#qWHU75h5ug https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes#qWHU75h5ug Income tax burden in Zurich @200k p.a. was 20.41% in 2019: https://swisstaxcalculator.estv.admin.ch/#/taxburden/income-wealth-tax https://swisstaxcalculator.estv.admin.ch/#/taxburden/income-... So you "pay" 8% of purchasing power to get everything I mentioned (plus socialized health care but let's not go there).

est31 6y ago

Switzerland is kind of an exception to that, but their market is pretty small.

fxtentacle 6y ago

For skilled programmers, pay in Germany tends to be $5k to $6k per month after all taxes and the highest level of health insurance and a generous retirement insurance and disability and private unemployment insurance (additional to the government one). That is enough for an entire family to rent a house and live a very comfortable life pretty much everywhere in Germany, except maybe Munich city center. There are strong overtime protections, I've heard from people who were paid 4x their regular salary because they were called in on a Sunday. I'm sure the FAANG pay better, but maybe house + family + free time is nicer than high numbers in your online banking?

lotsofpulp 6y ago
The US is pretty awesome if you're in the top 10%. Of course, more than 10% of the US population likes to believe they are in the top 10% or have a chance at being in the top 10% in the future.

orf 6y ago

You’re only fooling yourself if you look at the raw values rather than quality of life and relative cost of living.

est31 6y ago
You could live in the US for a few years, and then come back to Germany so that you can e.g. buy a house without having to pay for it for decades.

ThePadawan 6y ago

Here are the two markets I was comparing: Seattle salaries: https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Greater-Seattle-Area/ https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Greater-Se... Switzerland salaries: https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Switzerland/ https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Switzerlan... Cost-of-living Seattle vs. Zurich: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Switzerland&city1=Seattle%2C+WA&city2=Zurich https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou... Income tax burden in Seattle @200k p.a. was 26.28% in 2019: https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes#qWHU75h5ug https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes#qWHU75h5ug Income tax burden in Zurich @200k p.a. was 20.41% in 2019: https://swisstaxcalculator.estv.admin.ch/#/taxburden/income-wealth-tax https://swisstaxcalculator.estv.admin.ch/#/taxburden/income-... So you "pay" 8% of purchasing power to get everything I mentioned (plus socialized health care but let's not go there).