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While it's true this seems like a strong US thing, I haven't heard many happy long-term stories of folks living intergenerationally. In my experience (talking

While it's true this seems like a strong US thing, I haven't heard many happy long-term stories of folks living intergenerationally. In my experience (talking to people from a variety of countries), most couples in their 20s/30s want their own place (even in the countries where it's not common). It seems it can even lead to happier intergenerational relationships when the roomate-type fights don't need to happen. It would seem to me that it's most common in the US to move out because they can afford to... The US is just an incredibly rich place, even compared to much of western Europe (ex. the US has 40% more GDP per capita than France[1]) There are of course also family/social pressures in some places, but I really don't think it's the primary factor in the differences between many countries. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...

lotsofpulp 6y ago
This matches my experience that children of immigrants from intergenerational living cultures choose to live separate from parents if they can afford it. No one makes compromises unless they have to, and unless you have a big soundproof house, two or more couples living together are going to bump into each other. I see older parents moving back in with kids due to declining health, but otherwise the consensus seems to be that having grandparents nearby in a separate home is ideal.
- akdas 6y ago
  Not saying that fitting people into a small space isn't hard. However, children of immigrants are especially keen to assimilate into the receiving culture, so much so that they often go beyond what natives do. For immigrants and their children, a clash of cultural values may be a larger driving factor than what's the natural for people in general.
- tharne 6y ago
  Having your family under one roof isn't a compromise, unless you don't like your family. Sure, there are downsides at times to having everyone together, but the positives far outweigh the negatives.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Even if you like your family, I would be surprised if you didn't make compromises regarding noise levels during different times of day, cooking choices, having people over, etc. Not to mention cultural differences. The above might not apply if you have a large enough space with sufficient sound proofing and multiple kitchens, but that's not the reality for most people. There are positives, but my observations suggest that the biggest factor in determining if you live in an intergenerational household is whether or not children and the parents can both afford to live in different houses.
shados 6y ago
> It would seem to me that it's most common in the US to move out because they can afford to... In the context of the "housing affordability crisis", it makes that part of the context that much more interesting.
fakedang 6y ago
I would agree on one point and disagree on the other actually. On the first point, from what I've seen, there is certainly a lot of conflict if intergenerational couples stay together under the same roof for prolonged periods of time, whether it's the parents living with the kids or the other way around. For short periods of time, it definitely works out positively. I would argue that it's less because of wealth or even expenses, and moreso because of cultural norms, that children tend to stay with their parents for longer in Europe. I don't know if this comes across as anecdotal, but my SO's parents often requested her to choose a medical university closer to home, and even suggested we stay with them, even though they are extremely affluent and comfortable. Even now, after living separately in another city, her parents and relatives often stop by to check up and stay for a couple of days very often. Of course, the young will always prefer to move apart to retain some privacy, especially once the kids arrive. Obviously there's the shadow of European expenses hanging over everyone's heads.
- tharkun___ 6y ago
  It's not even necessarily a Europe thing. Or Asian. Though yes there are these tendencies. Italians, even in the US (North America actually) from my experience tend to stick together as a family unit for a long time. There's a lot of pressure on the young folks as well in some cases I know. Every situation is different in its own subtle way but I can definitely see how necessity (money) has made it so that kids stay with their parents until they're married. Catholicism will play a role too. Seeing that in many Spanish friends as well. Both the money and religious aspects. Germans too. I have a good childhood friend (yep I grew up there) who was always very close to his mum and built his house right next to his parents house for money reasons (free land so more money for the house). They are just constantly fighting over this or that. His SO really hates it now. I never understood why they did that. Sure, be in the same city, maybe even same neighborhood but right next to the parents especially after marriage? You're crazy! Same household? Way beyond crazy! Personally I have healthy 6000km between myself and the parents. To be honest something like the 300km we had a some point is nicer and for taking care if the kids from time to time something like a few kilometers is best but same houseld is just stupid and I have yet to meet someone (even Asians) that will willingly do that for longer than necessary if they can help it. If they do it, it's for one of the reasons stated above like a Vietnamese colleague who did move back in with her mum for like a half year while trying to find a new place. They're close but same household is just way too close.
hosh 6y ago
Some thoughts about that: 1. In the US, zoning laws discourage building things like the "mother in-law suite". These zoning laws were originally created as a way to get around federal laws prohibiting discrimination of race and sex by making it more difficult for people who can't afford housing to live within a certain neighborhood. Even if US residents wanted to add housing for some semblance of independence, zoning laws makes this difficult. 2. In the US, children are educated to become factory workers, and inegunity is deliberately suppressed. (See John Taylor Gotto's The Underground History of American Education). 3. When I look at Carol Sandford's work on regenerative business and regenerative life paradigms, I realized that people here in the US have been conditioned to think that being able to live independently is the mark of an adult. But that is an illusion. They are still largely treated like cogs, whether those are adults who are working full time jobs, or children in the compulsory school system. 4. In contrast, a regenerative business builds up the capability for each employee to figure out what they want to do that will make a meaningful contribution to the business and society in a way that aligns with the general direction the organization is going and the general strategy. Being able to do that gives a far greater sense of fulfillment, purpose, and agency to the people involved. It's as if every employee has the chance to be a mini startup within a larger organization, and the organization as a whole become more adaptive, resilient, without sacrificing being a responsible corporate citizen. 5. When I think about how that is applied to children, I am reminded by the NPR article about how indigenous families have children doing chores without resentment. (https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/06/09/616928895/how-to-get-your-kids-to-do-chores-without-resenting-it https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/06/09/6169288...) ... and then I realized that, it isn't really about chores. It is a way that children from indigenous families are encouraged to make meaningful contributions to family and community from a young age. 6. If your sense of self-worth and purpose is derived from making meaningful contributions to the family, community, and society, you're no longer pidgeonholed into the role of being a child. As such, I think a lot of the tensions and inter-generational drama we expect from adult children living with their parents is no longer there.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  Exceptional comment.
- 6y ago
asiachick 6y ago
I think your random sampling of people is just unlucky. It's not my experience the people living intergenerationally are unhappy. It's normal here in Asia. I know of no one complaining. It's very common to see 50s mom and 20s daughters spending days together as friends. Browse a dating site and it's not uncommon to see people even in their 40s living with parents. It's also not uncommon for people to move out for collage and move back in 4 to 10 years later with zero stigma I have feeling you could make an argument that getting your own place is either an indirect or possible direct consequence of marketing. Lots of companies stand to make more money if they promote you moving out on your own. Ikea has at least one famous ad telling you to move out of your parent's house https://www.google.com/search?q=time+to+leave+home+ikea https://www.google.com/search?q=time+to+leave+home+ikea
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  The economic incentives are the whole thing. Had the US not participated the suburban American dream, the excess WWII capacity would be wasted instead of being redirected to home construction, auto manufacturing, and all manner of new industry. And we would’ve plunged into yet another depression.
tharne 6y ago
> While it's true this seems like a strong US thing, I haven't heard many happy long-term stories of folks living intergenerationally. That's really depressing. I'm sorry your social circle has such poor family dynamics. The majority of inter-generational families I know quite like the arrangement. Grandparents love having grand kids around, parents enjoy the extra help of the grandparents, meals are a lot more fun, etc.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

This matches my experience that children of immigrants from intergenerational living cultures choose to live separate from parents if they can afford it. No one makes compromises unless they have to, and unless you have a big soundproof house, two or more couples living together are going to bump into each other. I see older parents moving back in with kids due to declining health, but otherwise the consensus seems to be that having grandparents nearby in a separate home is ideal.

akdas 6y ago
Not saying that fitting people into a small space isn't hard. However, children of immigrants are especially keen to assimilate into the receiving culture, so much so that they often go beyond what natives do. For immigrants and their children, a clash of cultural values may be a larger driving factor than what's the natural for people in general.
tharne 6y ago
Having your family under one roof isn't a compromise, unless you don't like your family. Sure, there are downsides at times to having everyone together, but the positives far outweigh the negatives.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Even if you like your family, I would be surprised if you didn't make compromises regarding noise levels during different times of day, cooking choices, having people over, etc. Not to mention cultural differences. The above might not apply if you have a large enough space with sufficient sound proofing and multiple kitchens, but that's not the reality for most people. There are positives, but my observations suggest that the biggest factor in determining if you live in an intergenerational household is whether or not children and the parents can both afford to live in different houses.

shados 6y ago

> It would seem to me that it's most common in the US to move out because they can afford to... In the context of the "housing affordability crisis", it makes that part of the context that much more interesting.

fakedang 6y ago

I would agree on one point and disagree on the other actually. On the first point, from what I've seen, there is certainly a lot of conflict if intergenerational couples stay together under the same roof for prolonged periods of time, whether it's the parents living with the kids or the other way around. For short periods of time, it definitely works out positively. I would argue that it's less because of wealth or even expenses, and moreso because of cultural norms, that children tend to stay with their parents for longer in Europe. I don't know if this comes across as anecdotal, but my SO's parents often requested her to choose a medical university closer to home, and even suggested we stay with them, even though they are extremely affluent and comfortable. Even now, after living separately in another city, her parents and relatives often stop by to check up and stay for a couple of days very often. Of course, the young will always prefer to move apart to retain some privacy, especially once the kids arrive. Obviously there's the shadow of European expenses hanging over everyone's heads.

tharkun___ 6y ago
It's not even necessarily a Europe thing. Or Asian. Though yes there are these tendencies. Italians, even in the US (North America actually) from my experience tend to stick together as a family unit for a long time. There's a lot of pressure on the young folks as well in some cases I know. Every situation is different in its own subtle way but I can definitely see how necessity (money) has made it so that kids stay with their parents until they're married. Catholicism will play a role too. Seeing that in many Spanish friends as well. Both the money and religious aspects. Germans too. I have a good childhood friend (yep I grew up there) who was always very close to his mum and built his house right next to his parents house for money reasons (free land so more money for the house). They are just constantly fighting over this or that. His SO really hates it now. I never understood why they did that. Sure, be in the same city, maybe even same neighborhood but right next to the parents especially after marriage? You're crazy! Same household? Way beyond crazy! Personally I have healthy 6000km between myself and the parents. To be honest something like the 300km we had a some point is nicer and for taking care if the kids from time to time something like a few kilometers is best but same houseld is just stupid and I have yet to meet someone (even Asians) that will willingly do that for longer than necessary if they can help it. If they do it, it's for one of the reasons stated above like a Vietnamese colleague who did move back in with her mum for like a half year while trying to find a new place. They're close but same household is just way too close.

hosh 6y ago

Some thoughts about that: 1. In the US, zoning laws discourage building things like the "mother in-law suite". These zoning laws were originally created as a way to get around federal laws prohibiting discrimination of race and sex by making it more difficult for people who can't afford housing to live within a certain neighborhood. Even if US residents wanted to add housing for some semblance of independence, zoning laws makes this difficult. 2. In the US, children are educated to become factory workers, and inegunity is deliberately suppressed. (See John Taylor Gotto's The Underground History of American Education). 3. When I look at Carol Sandford's work on regenerative business and regenerative life paradigms, I realized that people here in the US have been conditioned to think that being able to live independently is the mark of an adult. But that is an illusion. They are still largely treated like cogs, whether those are adults who are working full time jobs, or children in the compulsory school system. 4. In contrast, a regenerative business builds up the capability for each employee to figure out what they want to do that will make a meaningful contribution to the business and society in a way that aligns with the general direction the organization is going and the general strategy. Being able to do that gives a far greater sense of fulfillment, purpose, and agency to the people involved. It's as if every employee has the chance to be a mini startup within a larger organization, and the organization as a whole become more adaptive, resilient, without sacrificing being a responsible corporate citizen. 5. When I think about how that is applied to children, I am reminded by the NPR article about how indigenous families have children doing chores without resentment. (https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/06/09/616928895/how-to-get-your-kids-to-do-chores-without-resenting-it https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/06/09/6169288...) ... and then I realized that, it isn't really about chores. It is a way that children from indigenous families are encouraged to make meaningful contributions to family and community from a young age. 6. If your sense of self-worth and purpose is derived from making meaningful contributions to the family, community, and society, you're no longer pidgeonholed into the role of being a child. As such, I think a lot of the tensions and inter-generational drama we expect from adult children living with their parents is no longer there.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
Exceptional comment.
6y ago

asiachick 6y ago

I think your random sampling of people is just unlucky. It's not my experience the people living intergenerationally are unhappy. It's normal here in Asia. I know of no one complaining. It's very common to see 50s mom and 20s daughters spending days together as friends. Browse a dating site and it's not uncommon to see people even in their 40s living with parents. It's also not uncommon for people to move out for collage and move back in 4 to 10 years later with zero stigma I have feeling you could make an argument that getting your own place is either an indirect or possible direct consequence of marketing. Lots of companies stand to make more money if they promote you moving out on your own. Ikea has at least one famous ad telling you to move out of your parent's house https://www.google.com/search?q=time+to+leave+home+ikea https://www.google.com/search?q=time+to+leave+home+ikea

bobthepanda 6y ago
The economic incentives are the whole thing. Had the US not participated the suburban American dream, the excess WWII capacity would be wasted instead of being redirected to home construction, auto manufacturing, and all manner of new industry. And we would’ve plunged into yet another depression.

tharne 6y ago

> While it's true this seems like a strong US thing, I haven't heard many happy long-term stories of folks living intergenerationally. That's really depressing. I'm sorry your social circle has such poor family dynamics. The majority of inter-generational families I know quite like the arrangement. Grandparents love having grand kids around, parents enjoy the extra help of the grandparents, meals are a lot more fun, etc.