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They make it up by taking a 30% cut on any games you purchase through their store (which is the only place you can buy games for it), similar to consoles. This

They make it up by taking a 30% cut on any games you purchase through their store (which is the only place you can buy games for it), similar to consoles. This is much more money than user data is worth. (Not that they won't use/sell that data, too, but let's not confuse ourselves about how much it's worth.)

chaostheory 6y ago
yeah, the Oculus store is more expensive than the Steam store for the same titles.
Robotbeat 6y ago
EXCEPT for the privacy bull (pretty angry about that), that's actually not a terrible deal for consumers.
gibolt 6y ago
Facebook doesn't sell user data. Advertisers have access to targeting that occurs in a black box to them
- dylan604 6y ago
  If you want to get down to a nit picky level like that then, sure. And to be fair, maybe it should be explicitly stated. However, Facebook sells access to the data it collects. It may not be access to the raw data that a phrase like 'selling the data' makes it sound. However, it is making money from the knowledge it has about people (can't even say its users anymore). Either way, the ad buyer (end user) gets access to that data even if it is a black box API style system.
  - polyomino 6y ago
    No, advertisers do not "get access" to that data. They get the ability to target ads against people who match some characteristics. Facebook's business is literally built on advertisers inability to access that data. If they had access, advertisers would advertise elsewhere and Facebook wouldn't get a cut.
    - atoav 6y ago
      Which is in itself a huge problem in democratic societies as demonstrated e.g. by Cambridge analytica. I think the potential harm that this business model produces and the power it gives the companies who deploy them, is something our formerly nice working systems didn't really price in when the seperation of powers was invented. So while protection of privacy is always also the right of one individual, I think it is crucial to realize that this kind of power over "the masses" isn't something any free society could afford in the long term on a systemic level. If we look at a democracy with it's separation of powers, it's institutions etc as a delicately balanced electronic circuit — which has the ability to self correct — players like Facebook are like the introduction of new feedback paths that work better for people who don't mind to sell their soul when abusing them. Of course such new connections will have an effect on the whole system, but the crucial point is, that nobody really considered what this effect might be and whether what we have and like in democracy can actually survive this. You cannot have free elections if the people voting in it are put into their own matrix-esque simulation of reality. How could we ever find agreeable consent if our realities have no common overlap by design? I think a lot of people in tech sphere don't really want to see this as they are profiting from this. It makes us powerful wizards who see more and understand more than others.
      - skummetmaelk 6y ago
        CA actually did get access to user data because they abused a loophole in the Facebook app API that let them grab all the details of not only people who used the app, but also every single one of their friends. They were also using data given to researchers by Facebook as part of a collaboration.
        artificial 6y ago
        There isn't a loophole with the graph, it was designed for this and was used notably by Zygna and later the Obama campaign. When the campaign hoovered up everything in 2011/2012 and set off alarms, FB saw what they were doing and didn't hinder it. Instead they reached out them, stating that they're on the same side. Hopefully these links aren't mangled. Here's the media championing it: "How a dream team of engineers from Facebook, Twitter, and Google built the software that drove Barack Obama's reelection" https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/11/when-the-nerds-go-marching-in/265325/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/11/when-... "How President Obama’s campaign used big data to rally individual voters." https://www.technologyreview.com/2012/12/19/114510/how-obamas-team-used-big-data-to-rally-voters/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2012/12/19/114510/how-obama... "Obama, Facebook and the power of friendship: the 2012 data election" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/17/obama-digital-data-machine-facebook-election https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/17/obama-digital-... "the firm never tried to stop them when they realized what was doing, and even told them they'd made a special exception for them" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5520303/Obama-campaign-director-reveals-Facebook-ALLOWED-data.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5520303/Obama-campa... "Why are politicians now freaking out about a feature that has been publicly documented since its inception and that was discontinued three years ago?" https://reason.com/2018/03/23/cambridge-analytics-dust-up-reveals-lawm/ https://reason.com/2018/03/23/cambridge-analytics-dust-up-re...
  - jjn2009 6y ago
    buying peoples data would be a big deal, that's why its not a nit picky detail. I also don't agree with facebook having all of my data in the first place but they don't just tar up my entire life and hand it to someone.
    - e_y_ 6y ago
      Not on purpose, anyways. In the past they were too lax about letting third-party apps get your data, hence the Cambridge Analytica scandal.
      - artificial 6y ago
        (ab)Used by Zynga earlier to great success with Farmville and Mafia Wars. https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/is-zyngas-dependence-on-facebook-the-key-to-its-success-or-its-downfall/ https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/is-zyngas-depend...
  - gibolt 6y ago
    This is the biggest misunderstanding about Facebook in the general population. It is not nitpick, but an extremely important nuance in how they work. Not spreading the boogeyman of 'they sell your data' will improve discourse on how to actually change things.
    - cglong 6y ago
      This is true of Google as well (Chrome, Android, Maps, etc).
jjn2009 6y ago
were talking about cameras that are actively scanning your room, you do realize this thing is painting a detailed 3d picture of your house right?
- luckydata 6y ago
  how much do you think FB would care about that, even if that data was actually uploaded (which it isn't because it would be extremely expensive for everyone involved). C'mon, I get the hate but this is worst than tinfoil hat conspiracies.
  - jjn2009 6y ago
    You could try find various objects in the room on device and send a list of identifiers. The XR platform seems quite capable of that.
alasdair_ 6y ago
>They make it up by taking a 30% cut on any games you purchase through their store (which is the only place you can buy games for it) Most of my games are bought on Steam, not on the Oculus store.
- wbobeirne 6y ago
  With the Quest, you have to buy through their store (unless you're using Link to connect to a PC.)
  - panopticon 6y ago
    You can also use things like ALVR or Virtual Desktop to stream Steam VR titles to the Quest. But yes, that still requires a VR capable PC and stable wireless connection.
mark_l_watson 6y ago
I agree. I am a little a shocked how many games and VR experiences that I have bought for the Quest. The only other person I know who has one is my stepson (who did a “hard insist” that I buy one, and that was great advice) and he also buys a lot of games for his. I worked on VR over 30 years ago. I am so happy to finally see great consumer VR gear.

chaostheory 6y ago

yeah, the Oculus store is more expensive than the Steam store for the same titles.

Robotbeat 6y ago

EXCEPT for the privacy bull (pretty angry about that), that's actually not a terrible deal for consumers.

gibolt 6y ago

Facebook doesn't sell user data. Advertisers have access to targeting that occurs in a black box to them

dylan604 6y ago
If you want to get down to a nit picky level like that then, sure. And to be fair, maybe it should be explicitly stated. However, Facebook sells access to the data it collects. It may not be access to the raw data that a phrase like 'selling the data' makes it sound. However, it is making money from the knowledge it has about people (can't even say its users anymore). Either way, the ad buyer (end user) gets access to that data even if it is a black box API style system.
- polyomino 6y ago
  No, advertisers do not "get access" to that data. They get the ability to target ads against people who match some characteristics. Facebook's business is literally built on advertisers inability to access that data. If they had access, advertisers would advertise elsewhere and Facebook wouldn't get a cut.
  - atoav 6y ago
    Which is in itself a huge problem in democratic societies as demonstrated e.g. by Cambridge analytica. I think the potential harm that this business model produces and the power it gives the companies who deploy them, is something our formerly nice working systems didn't really price in when the seperation of powers was invented. So while protection of privacy is always also the right of one individual, I think it is crucial to realize that this kind of power over "the masses" isn't something any free society could afford in the long term on a systemic level. If we look at a democracy with it's separation of powers, it's institutions etc as a delicately balanced electronic circuit — which has the ability to self correct — players like Facebook are like the introduction of new feedback paths that work better for people who don't mind to sell their soul when abusing them. Of course such new connections will have an effect on the whole system, but the crucial point is, that nobody really considered what this effect might be and whether what we have and like in democracy can actually survive this. You cannot have free elections if the people voting in it are put into their own matrix-esque simulation of reality. How could we ever find agreeable consent if our realities have no common overlap by design? I think a lot of people in tech sphere don't really want to see this as they are profiting from this. It makes us powerful wizards who see more and understand more than others.
    - skummetmaelk 6y ago
      CA actually did get access to user data because they abused a loophole in the Facebook app API that let them grab all the details of not only people who used the app, but also every single one of their friends. They were also using data given to researchers by Facebook as part of a collaboration.
      - artificial 6y ago
        There isn't a loophole with the graph, it was designed for this and was used notably by Zygna and later the Obama campaign. When the campaign hoovered up everything in 2011/2012 and set off alarms, FB saw what they were doing and didn't hinder it. Instead they reached out them, stating that they're on the same side. Hopefully these links aren't mangled. Here's the media championing it: "How a dream team of engineers from Facebook, Twitter, and Google built the software that drove Barack Obama's reelection" https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/11/when-the-nerds-go-marching-in/265325/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/11/when-... "How President Obama’s campaign used big data to rally individual voters." https://www.technologyreview.com/2012/12/19/114510/how-obamas-team-used-big-data-to-rally-voters/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2012/12/19/114510/how-obama... "Obama, Facebook and the power of friendship: the 2012 data election" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/17/obama-digital-data-machine-facebook-election https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/17/obama-digital-... "the firm never tried to stop them when they realized what was doing, and even told them they'd made a special exception for them" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5520303/Obama-campaign-director-reveals-Facebook-ALLOWED-data.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5520303/Obama-campa... "Why are politicians now freaking out about a feature that has been publicly documented since its inception and that was discontinued three years ago?" https://reason.com/2018/03/23/cambridge-analytics-dust-up-reveals-lawm/ https://reason.com/2018/03/23/cambridge-analytics-dust-up-re...
- jjn2009 6y ago
  buying peoples data would be a big deal, that's why its not a nit picky detail. I also don't agree with facebook having all of my data in the first place but they don't just tar up my entire life and hand it to someone.
  - e_y_ 6y ago
    Not on purpose, anyways. In the past they were too lax about letting third-party apps get your data, hence the Cambridge Analytica scandal.
    - artificial 6y ago
      (ab)Used by Zynga earlier to great success with Farmville and Mafia Wars. https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/is-zyngas-dependence-on-facebook-the-key-to-its-success-or-its-downfall/ https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/is-zyngas-depend...
- gibolt 6y ago
  This is the biggest misunderstanding about Facebook in the general population. It is not nitpick, but an extremely important nuance in how they work. Not spreading the boogeyman of 'they sell your data' will improve discourse on how to actually change things.
  - cglong 6y ago
    This is true of Google as well (Chrome, Android, Maps, etc).

jjn2009 6y ago

were talking about cameras that are actively scanning your room, you do realize this thing is painting a detailed 3d picture of your house right?

luckydata 6y ago
how much do you think FB would care about that, even if that data was actually uploaded (which it isn't because it would be extremely expensive for everyone involved). C'mon, I get the hate but this is worst than tinfoil hat conspiracies.
- jjn2009 6y ago
  You could try find various objects in the room on device and send a list of identifiers. The XR platform seems quite capable of that.

alasdair_ 6y ago

>They make it up by taking a 30% cut on any games you purchase through their store (which is the only place you can buy games for it) Most of my games are bought on Steam, not on the Oculus store.

wbobeirne 6y ago
With the Quest, you have to buy through their store (unless you're using Link to connect to a PC.)
- panopticon 6y ago
  You can also use things like ALVR or Virtual Desktop to stream Steam VR titles to the Quest. But yes, that still requires a VR capable PC and stable wireless connection.

mark_l_watson 6y ago

I agree. I am a little a shocked how many games and VR experiences that I have bought for the Quest. The only other person I know who has one is my stepson (who did a “hard insist” that I buy one, and that was great advice) and he also buys a lot of games for his. I worked on VR over 30 years ago. I am so happy to finally see great consumer VR gear.