5 ms·

Going for Swift means competing with XCode, which wouldn't make sense as Swift is generally used along with the entire iOS/macOS Dev tools (Simulators, UI Build

Going for Swift means competing with XCode, which wouldn't make sense as Swift is generally used along with the entire iOS/macOS Dev tools (Simulators, UI Builders, Device Manager etc). Not a wise thing to do.

paxys 6y ago
It's the same for VSCode and JS/TS support though. Fighting against a fully featured, free, open-source and well-established product just on the basis of speed is going to be an uphill battle.
- mkozlows 6y ago
  There is a big "ugh, Electron apps" contingent of Mac users. Or at least, there's a loud one, and I guess they figured it's also a big-enough one...
  - paxys 6y ago
    The vast majority of developers aren't hanging out on HN though. I'll wait till there are real benchmarks but I'd be very surprised if Nova is actually noticeably more performant than VS Code.
    - Nextgrid 6y ago
      Just the fact that Nova is ~36MB and VSCode is ~3x that at ~95MB should at least point you in the right direction. Also note that Nova already includes features that are only available via separate plugins on VSCode.
      - RussianCow 6y ago
        But 95MB is small enough that it doesn't matter—1/3 the size of basically nothing is still basically nothing. Even in terms of memory or CPU usage, VS Code is relatively efficient compared to some other products on the market such as the JetBrains IDEs. Say what you will about Electron apps in general, but Microsoft has done a great job in making VS Code not feel like a typical Electron app.
        jmnicolas 6y ago
        If you have 4G of ram and 120G of disk and a slow internet connection all of this matter. Fwiw before getting internet fiber, a 95MB file resulted in about 20 min download (my reference was 300MB an hour).
        yeahoo 6y ago
        It's more about "enough proportion of ..", and my 5 cents are that using mac hardware _always_ with a very tiny internet connection is kind of rare. So not enough to base an argument on, in my opinion. Kinda having expensive mac hardware most probably implies access to some time of a good internet connection to download/update tools needed.
        read_if_gay_ 6y ago
        > VS Code is relatively efficient compared to some other products on the market such as the JetBrains IDEs. That's not really a fair comparison I think. JetBrains IDEs do a lot more than VS Code. You'd have to load it up with plugins to make something resembling a fair comparison, and in that case I'd be very interested in how efficient VS Code still is.
        RussianCow 6y ago
        I completely agree, but I would wager that VS Code would still be noticeably faster even if it had all of the functionality that IntelliJ does. As a daily user of the latter, it seems like they have a lot more room for optimization, whereas VS Code seems to have been built from day 1 with performance in mind. But this is pure anecdote so I could be wrong.
  - OOPMan 6y ago
    We're not just Mac users. Electron apps are bloated ick but I guess at least Electron is equally repulsive on all OSes.
  - SirHound 6y ago
    VSC is more of a memory hog but in use it isn’t noticeably slower than Nova.
  - ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
    Where? Here in HN, a little bit, but out IRL? Out in real life no one knows or cares about this
- threatofrain 6y ago
  Especially because TS and VSC already move at blazing speeds.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  React Native for Windows and macOS is developed by Microsoft, and they continuously show how Electron bloat means it uses 300x more resources than Win32, UWP, React Native applications. My hope is that they create enough momentum to force the VSCode team to rewrite in React Native.
qppo 6y ago
XCode was a motivating factor in my purchase of JetBrains products, specifically CLion.
- xnz8 6y ago
  New thing this year, but VSCode + with Apple's SourceKit LSP extension [1] has been working surprisingly well for me. Glad to have more alternatives to Xcode. Have been using SPM's "swift build" + some copy commands to create a fully functional signable bundle, no need even for an .xcodeproj. [1] https://nshipster.com/vscode/ https://nshipster.com/vscode/
  - ziftface 6y ago
    I'm curious about this. Could you do iOS app development this way? Or at least native Mac development using cocoa like you could in xcode?
    - xnz8 6y ago
      Yes! The build just produces a single executable. For example, in a Mac app this would be the file inside Contents/MacOS. You then need to create a folder with an .app extension, set up a simple folder structure, and add some necessities such as the Info.plist file and your resources like the app icon/images. And codesign or notarize depending on your deployment requirements. Code completion works great for dev and I've found VSCode to be snappier than Xcode even if the underlying engine (SourceKit) is supposed to be the same. The only thing "missing" is not having Interface Builder, but probably most serious projects use code-generated UIs anyway. You could, of course, still make an .xib file in Xcode and use it in your VSCode project. (I don't have a MainMenu.xib myself.) See: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/CoreFoundation/Conceptual/CFBundles/BundleTypes/BundleTypes.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/10000123i-CH101-SW1 https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Co...
      - ziftface 6y ago
        Thank you for sharing!
sdflhasjd 6y ago
I would definitely welcome some competition for XCode.
- shepherdjerred 6y ago
  Check out AppCode

paxys 6y ago

It's the same for VSCode and JS/TS support though. Fighting against a fully featured, free, open-source and well-established product just on the basis of speed is going to be an uphill battle.

mkozlows 6y ago
There is a big "ugh, Electron apps" contingent of Mac users. Or at least, there's a loud one, and I guess they figured it's also a big-enough one...
- paxys 6y ago
  The vast majority of developers aren't hanging out on HN though. I'll wait till there are real benchmarks but I'd be very surprised if Nova is actually noticeably more performant than VS Code.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    Just the fact that Nova is ~36MB and VSCode is ~3x that at ~95MB should at least point you in the right direction. Also note that Nova already includes features that are only available via separate plugins on VSCode.
    - RussianCow 6y ago
      But 95MB is small enough that it doesn't matter—1/3 the size of basically nothing is still basically nothing. Even in terms of memory or CPU usage, VS Code is relatively efficient compared to some other products on the market such as the JetBrains IDEs. Say what you will about Electron apps in general, but Microsoft has done a great job in making VS Code not feel like a typical Electron app.
      - jmnicolas 6y ago
        If you have 4G of ram and 120G of disk and a slow internet connection all of this matter. Fwiw before getting internet fiber, a 95MB file resulted in about 20 min download (my reference was 300MB an hour).
        yeahoo 6y ago
        It's more about "enough proportion of ..", and my 5 cents are that using mac hardware _always_ with a very tiny internet connection is kind of rare. So not enough to base an argument on, in my opinion. Kinda having expensive mac hardware most probably implies access to some time of a good internet connection to download/update tools needed.
      - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
        > VS Code is relatively efficient compared to some other products on the market such as the JetBrains IDEs. That's not really a fair comparison I think. JetBrains IDEs do a lot more than VS Code. You'd have to load it up with plugins to make something resembling a fair comparison, and in that case I'd be very interested in how efficient VS Code still is.
        RussianCow 6y ago
        I completely agree, but I would wager that VS Code would still be noticeably faster even if it had all of the functionality that IntelliJ does. As a daily user of the latter, it seems like they have a lot more room for optimization, whereas VS Code seems to have been built from day 1 with performance in mind. But this is pure anecdote so I could be wrong.
- OOPMan 6y ago
  We're not just Mac users. Electron apps are bloated ick but I guess at least Electron is equally repulsive on all OSes.
- SirHound 6y ago
  VSC is more of a memory hog but in use it isn’t noticeably slower than Nova.
- ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
  Where? Here in HN, a little bit, but out IRL? Out in real life no one knows or cares about this
threatofrain 6y ago
Especially because TS and VSC already move at blazing speeds.
pjmlp 6y ago
React Native for Windows and macOS is developed by Microsoft, and they continuously show how Electron bloat means it uses 300x more resources than Win32, UWP, React Native applications. My hope is that they create enough momentum to force the VSCode team to rewrite in React Native.

qppo 6y ago

XCode was a motivating factor in my purchase of JetBrains products, specifically CLion.

xnz8 6y ago
New thing this year, but VSCode + with Apple's SourceKit LSP extension [1] has been working surprisingly well for me. Glad to have more alternatives to Xcode. Have been using SPM's "swift build" + some copy commands to create a fully functional signable bundle, no need even for an .xcodeproj. [1] https://nshipster.com/vscode/ https://nshipster.com/vscode/
- ziftface 6y ago
  I'm curious about this. Could you do iOS app development this way? Or at least native Mac development using cocoa like you could in xcode?
  - xnz8 6y ago
    Yes! The build just produces a single executable. For example, in a Mac app this would be the file inside Contents/MacOS. You then need to create a folder with an .app extension, set up a simple folder structure, and add some necessities such as the Info.plist file and your resources like the app icon/images. And codesign or notarize depending on your deployment requirements. Code completion works great for dev and I've found VSCode to be snappier than Xcode even if the underlying engine (SourceKit) is supposed to be the same. The only thing "missing" is not having Interface Builder, but probably most serious projects use code-generated UIs anyway. You could, of course, still make an .xib file in Xcode and use it in your VSCode project. (I don't have a MainMenu.xib myself.) See: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/CoreFoundation/Conceptual/CFBundles/BundleTypes/BundleTypes.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/10000123i-CH101-SW1 https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Co...
    - ziftface 6y ago
      Thank you for sharing!

sdflhasjd 6y ago

I would definitely welcome some competition for XCode.

shepherdjerred 6y ago
Check out AppCode