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American Airlines Bans Wearing Too Much Personal Protection Equipment on Board
- hartator 6y agoSuch an interesting time!
- johnnyfaehell 6y agoTo be fair, this seems reasonable. There has to be a line that is drawn. Having everyone wearing full body pods isn't feasible. If you honestly feel like you need a full body pod, maybe you should seek a different mode of transport.
- hadlock 6y agoThere's a bunch of eager grandparents looking forward to seeing their first grandchild born, as well as loved ones going to funerals etc. These people trend towards being over 55 and a cross country solo road trip for a widowed grandmother is not always an option for them, and covid isn't going to stop them from getting on a plane if possible.
- bostonpete 6y agoMost air travel is for a good reason, and most of it is avoidable in the current environment. There are other ways to see a grandchild or pay respects to the deceased. It sucks, but we're all in the same boat
- sunkenvicar 6y agoEw. I hope you get nowhere near political power.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- easytiger 6y ago> and covid isn't going to stop them from getting on a plane if possible. Then get on the plane in a shirt and trousers. Literally no need for this stuff
- zobzu 6y agoI've a parent that died just before COVID started and I'm not allowed to go there (travel ban). While I disagree with the risk of COVID, I would agree that if the risk was so great I should make a choice between minimum safety and my convenience of being able to mourn properly. Having a person that died or whatever shouldn't suddenly mean I'm the victim of the day and everyone else should bend over to make my day better. If anything, that wouldn't even scale. That said it's moot because I personally have neither option heh.
- lazyasciiart 6y agoA grandparent who wants to visit a newborn is the epitome of "neither of you should travel". It's like people don't even consider the option of actually adjusting their expectations based on changed world conditions. Easy for me to say, of course, since I live far enough away from my family that I've already become used to missing funerals and weddings and babies, and now I couldn't go home if I wanted to.
- jefftk 6y ago> Having everyone wearing full body pods isn't feasible. How is someone wearing a full body pod in a window seat (as pictured in the article) causing problems for others?
- nharada 6y agoI'm guessing it's a safety thing? Having a bunch of people in bubble suits would make it really hard to evacuate the plane.
- ragnese 6y agoWouldn't this be a simple case of measuring the probability of needing to evacuate the plane quickly vs. probability of catching covid-19 and dying? Honestly, right now, for an elderly person, the covid risk is probably higher.
- wizzwizz4 6y agoConditional probability is a bit too advanced for the people making these decisions at the moment. (That's not to say that they're incapable of taking it into account; I'm sure most of them would be able to understand and use the concepts. They just don't.)
- ketamine__ 6y agoIsolating at home is a good way to stay safe if vulnerable.
- OJFord 6y ago..from both eventualities!
- thinkharderdev 6y agoTheoretically you could, but in practice I don't know that we can reliably determine either of those probabilities with any accuracy. For instance, COVID risk is highly dependent (even for elderly people) on the presence of comorbidities. Are you going to ask everyone on the flight for their medical history?
- Hnaomyiph 6y agoNot to mention the egress issues large safety equipment might cause. I can’t imagine an emergency deplane where everyone is effectively in inflatable sumo suits.
- mrob 6y agoThis is a reasonable position, assuming you're also in favor of banning obese people from flights.
- WilTimSon 6y agoThere's a difference between people's own weight which they can't easily control or change and excessive personal protection which can be swapped for a mask and a bottle of hand sanitizer. I don't see the reason for banning these outright though, maybe just choose a section of the cabin where people wearing these can be grouped. It's convenient for everyone and doesn't pose any extra risks for the rest of the passengers.
- thinkharderdev 6y agoI think the concern with the pods is different from large body mass. The pod gets tossed (presumably) in an emergency situation so it can end up somewhere that is blocking someone else from safely evacuating. It would be less like an obese person than a normal weight person wearing a fat suit which they discard and throw in the aisle if they have to emergency deplane.
- ivanstame 6y agoUntil when you are going to be stupid and believe this made up situation, it's OK guys, it's not our first time to have a pandemic, why make it such a fuss when it's not, you are acting foolish with this COVID shit...? 1 million deaths by corona, and that is questionable, but because of this made up situation many more millions will suffer and die because you guys decided you are fucking scared and submit like little bitches to the governments... your freedom is taken from you like candy from kids...it's sad to watch this.
- andrewnicolalde 6y agoHow's the weather in St. Petersburg?
- ivanstame 6y agoThink of it like this. 1 million deaths maybe fake but who cares, right? :D and 7 bil. people. That is 0.0142% Let's say there is a 0.0142% of chance to rain everyday. I guess we should take an umbrella with us all the time till the rest of our lives?
- ivanstame 6y agohere is one little bitch :D
- dang 6y agoWould you please stop posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to HN? You've been doing it a lot, unfortunately, and it's not the intended use of the site. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dang 6y agoComments like this are not allowed on HN regardless of how provocative another comment was or how strongly you disagree. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- tlbsofware 6y agoOzone generators are a safety hazard to other passengers so I’m glad they are banning the use of those, the EPA states that ozone can: “ When inhaled, ozone can damage the lungs. Relatively low amounts can cause chest pain, coughing, shortness of breath and throat irritation. Ozone may also worsen chronic respiratory diseases such as asthma and compromise the ability of the body to fight respiratory infections.” EPA.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/ozone-generators-are-sold-air-cleaners
- wtvanhest 6y agoHow do you tell if your air cleaner that you are using generates ozone?
- tyingq 6y agoDo be aware that some passengers have oxygen generators that could be mistaken for an ozone generator.
- Someone1234 6y agoI agree they could be mistaken by another passenger not familiar with oxygen concentrators, which is a good argument for avoiding vigilantism in general. If you have concerns let the flight crew know quietly, and they can find out politely if the device is within policy (which oxygen concentrators of course are).
- CodeWriter23 6y agoIf someone wanta to sit on the window and take the body pod risk on themselves, and possibly have a similarly-equipped family member or travel partner adjacent, that’s their business IMO. Sitting on the aisle where they may impede the escape of another passenger who is a stranger, not acceptable. But that may even be misinformed. Obese people on the aisle present a formidable obstacle as well.
- asah 6y agoum no. The airline is then accepting liability - consider lawsuits from the person's next of kin.
- ci5er 6y agoWell, yes. As since obesity is (a bit) skewed by race, depending on the age group, you'd be looking at disparate impact lawsuits. Whereas PPE is purely individual choice. I would expect a fair amount of judicial respect for the former, but maybe not the latter.
- thinkharderdev 6y agoI think the issue would be if you had a plane full of people in body pods, in an emergency deplane scenario all of the pods become obstacles that will end up in random places around the cabin so even if someone is in an aisle seat, they may not be in an aisle seat still if the plane skids off the runway during takeoff and everyone is tossed around a bit.
- renewiltord 6y agoSure, but you're going to stay put until I exit the plane. If the plane's on fire, don't get in the narrow ass aisle and start pinballing your way to the front like a drunk in a fat suit.
- abruzzi 6y agoThe issues is if the tent obstructs the cabin staff from providing assistance. Simply saying that "it is on the individual" isn't going to stop the airline from getting, and possible losing, a lawsuit by the family when the passenger dies or suffer hypoxic brain damage, and the cabin staff says "we skipped (or delayed) offering him assistance because he was wearing a tent that would have significantly impeded our ability to provide assistance to other passengers."
- threatofrain 6y agoI'm sure there's a solution that fits within the constraints of a carry-on option.
- wizzwizz4 6y agoThe reason for this is safety. If the cabin depressurises, a little oxygen mask pops down from the top. You have a few seconds to put this on your face before you're unconscious¹, and a few minutes after that for somebody else to put it on your face before you're dead. Try doing that while inside a tent. (I'm don't know whether this conclusion is statistically valid, considering how few non-Boeing's have been depressurising v.s. the proportion of the population with COVID-19, but it feels intuitively right, and that's how these decisions have been made lately.) ¹: read "not usefully conscious"; you might still be awake, but your brain won't be doing much thinking or hand-moving.
- foobarian 6y agoBS. I can hold my breath for over 1 minute even without hyperventilating beforehand.
- xboxnolifes 6y agoWould only work if you manage to breath out during depressurization and manage to not instinctively take a breath in the low oxygen environment.
- wizzwizz4 6y agoCan you hold your breath breathed out for that long? That's what happens in practice when the cabin depressurises.
- Swizec 6y agoTry it. You can go about 30seconds in a calm situation where you know what to expect before the panic overwhelms you. With a sudden event, you’d have about 15 seconds because there’s a lot to panic about. Edit: just tried. 25s panic started, 30s my chest was trying to inhale, 36s I had to let myself breathe. This was at my desk while calm and in control. On a plane I’d probably panic sooner and might be able to go a full minute before actually passing out. Edit 2: I did use to freedive as a kid and am in very good shape (45 resting heart rate) so maybe that helps
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- jrochkind1 6y ago> Our Clean Commitment was launched to keep every gate area, jetbridge and aircraft clean > We’ve begun using new breakthrough SurfaceWise2 spraying solution > We require everyone to wear an approved mask or face covering to reduce the risk of virus transmission > We also offer extra wipes (where available) for customers to clean the area around them I think the current science is that there is very little evidence of significant risk of transmission from surfaces. (3 of those 4 points). Yet we are still obsessed with surface hygiene. I guess because it's something we can do... but if we spent all the money being spent on surface cleaning on things that actually are more likely to reduce transmission (like, say, ventilation; or even on research to learn more), we'd reduce transmission more. Those things they are banning they probably have to ban for good reasons of safety etc. But surface hygiene is no substitute.
- teruakohatu 6y agoIn New Zealand we have had at least one confirmed case of a isolation facility worker catching it in an empty elevator. Everyone entering the country goes into an isolation facility (repurposed hotel) covid or no covid.
- just-juan-post 6y ago> In the New Zealand we have had at least one confirmed case of a isolation facility worker catching it in an empty elevator. We would love to hear more about this. Do you have an article?
- roywiggins 6y agohttps://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122512325/coronavirus-mystery-rydges-case-possibly-linked-to-use-of-hotel-elevator https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/12251232...
- mrob 6y agoElevators are confined spaces with poor ventilation. How did they distinguish between catching it from elevator surfaces and catching it from aerosols in elevator air?
- tyingq 6y agoA front view of one of these "body tents": https://iknowthepilot.imgix.net/LocationImages/man-in-body-pod-1200x675.jpg https://iknowthepilot.imgix.net/LocationImages/man-in-body-p...
- AlexDragusin 6y agoThe real deal https://youtu.be/O1UjXJ26n-g?t=164 https://youtu.be/O1UjXJ26n-g?t=164
- easytiger 6y agoA guy in my building was flying back to china, dressed in full airtight hazmat suit with respirator. It's a fucking mental illness
- Someone1234 6y agoThat would be permissible by this policy. As far as "mental illness," I'd prefer people go a little overboard than the opposite. If for no other reason than I am safer near someone in an airtight hazmat suit + respirator, whereas I am less safe near someone without PPE. While I think the balance should be "reasonableness," they aren't hurting anyone else or even themselves. So live and let live.
- easytiger 6y agoYou think people should be let on planes dressed as follows https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/254693229052 https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/254693229052
- TillE 6y agoIt's absolutely insane to be flying during a global pandemic unless it's some kind of life-or-death emergency. Mandating everyone wear a full hazmat suit would be a far, far more reasonable policy than shrugging and letting people wear mostly-useless cloth masks. This is not a normal time and people have to stop acting like it is.
- easytiger 6y agoThat is not even close to being reasonable.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- mindslight 6y agoYes.
- fortran77 6y agoSince they allow CPAP machines to be used in-flight and these are known to aersolize and spread viral particle far and wide, I won't feel comfortable flying until I can wear a full-face mask with N-95 filters. I've written a letter (I had to Fed-Ex it to get an answer) to United (my usual airline) and they tell me they have to allow CPAP in flight "because of ADA." I hope they don't restrict the use of full-face masks. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7298691/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7298691/
- Someone1234 6y ago> I won't feel comfortable flying until I can wear a full-face mask with N-95 filters. Which is permitted by every airline including United and AA. Where did you get the impression that isn't the case?
- zobzu 6y agoI wouldnt be surprised if it gets banned. In case of cabin decompression the full face masks can be quite hard to remove and you may actually die. Now, that's very unlikely to happen, but apparently that's more likely than catching COVID or something. (Really, it's just insurance stuff I assume)
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ardy42 6y ago> Personal face / body tents > Personal face / body pods Are they talking about these things? https://utwpods.com/collections/bleacher-stadium-seating https://utwpods.com/collections/bleacher-stadium-seating
- tyingq 6y agoYes...there's a picture in the article. Same item.
- blackearl 6y agoThese things are bizarre. I can't imagine wearing one out in public since it doesn't actually seem to be a medical device. It's more like an over complicated umbrella/raincoat. I'm shocked this isn't an image from The Onion
- fxtentacle 6y agoIt was actually designed as a sit-in umbrella for soccer games. For that purpose, it seems to make sense, despite looking a bit outlandish.
- numpad0 6y agoThis is interesting as not anyone can wear masks for duration of a flight. Just couple weeks ago there was an incident in my country, where a domestic flight had to emergency land to kick out a person on the ground of cabin disturbances, who was also not wearing a mask. Story goes as follows: the person refused masks for claimed medical conditions, while pointing out that the mask policies at this point are voluntary basis. Airline crew accepted that and the plane took off, but then the person didn't like voices from other passengers around(?) and started harassing crews to order them to make an apology for the person(??) to the point the plane landed and person was forced out. Damages are estimated at $100k ranges, flight was delayed by couple hours, and the person in question is still standing boldly on media interviews in refusing masks, "defending rights", and demanding apologies. In short I think the person was legitimately bit autistic aside from being a complete jerk. But clearly the pain of facial masks vary person to person, so be it developmental issues or skin conditions or ear or facial shape issues the masks could be beyond their tolerances. I wonder what will be the best course forward...
- ghthor 6y agoDon't fucking mandate wearing masks by law and tell all your citizens to grow the fuck up about it. Wear real protection if you need to protect yourself, don't force everyone to wear masks to create a security theater.
- javagram 6y agoMasks are not a security theater, TSA is an example of security theater. For the small minority of people who are psychologically unable to wear a mask or have read so much online material that they have become violently against them, they can simply use a car to drive to their destination while the vast majority of the traveling public simply follows the rules.
- NicolasGorden 6y agoThe title is misleading to the point of being click bait. No one is getting banned from wearing medically approved PPE. They are banning people who use 'body tents' (which take up way more space on an aircraft than just your body) and people who are trying to change the air around them (which is shared by other people, and therefore cannot be considered Personal, per the definition of PPE) A more appropriate title would be: Airlines Ban Personal Tents and Air-Polluting Devises Now Popularly Marketed as Pseudoscientific Antiviral Protection Of course phrasing it as such would remove the news worthy element and make it seem like the reasonable move it is.
- fxtentacle 6y agoFully agree. I flew to Asia to visit relatives a few times and I always hated it if people spray their Eucalyptus oil into the air, because it seems to attack my throat. Plus I'm not sure what it would help with/against? In general, anything that potentially degrades the air quality for other passengers and does not have any provable benefit should be prohibited. Ozone is an obvious candidate, given that it will most likely make Covid spread more, not less.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y agoAre emotional support peacocks still allowed?
- christkv 6y agoLiterally pod-people https://utwpods.com https://utwpods.com
- aaron695 6y ago> Advise them that these types of PPE are safety concerns, especially tents / pods which can slow access to critical safety procedures, including emergency evacuations and use of oxygen masks Chance of crash ~0 Chance of death from disease, orders of magnitude more. Chance of death to family not on the flight of disease, even more orders of magnitude more. Risk to airlines being sued for a crash ~ same with or without people tripping Risk to airlines from regulators ~ a lot
- lokedhs 6y agoThe US seems to be incredibly polarised. On one hand you have people claiming that COVID is a hoax and refuse to wear masks or anything like that. On the other hand you see people saying they haven't left their house in 6 months and if they do, they wear three layers of latex gloves, an N95 mask with a surgical mask on top and refuse to touch door handles with anything but a 1 metre long stick. There seems to be a prevalent "if you're not with us you're against us" attitude that seeps through the entire society. The idea that there may be a middle road somewhere seems to have been completely lost. This is something I noticed in several different areas, and COVID is just one of them. The most obvious example is the political system of course.