8 ms·

We are also capable of realizing directly that personal identity itself is also construct, a mask we put on to make sense of the world. Seeing through this illu

We are also capable of realizing directly that personal identity itself is also construct, a mask we put on to make sense of the world. Seeing through this illusion can be deeply unsettling, as well as deeply liberating. E.g. Buddhist insight into anatta, or non-self. Shinzen Young's description on the nuts and bolts of Shingon Buddhist deity yoga practice is simply fascinating. https://alvinalexander.com/personal/shinzen-young-shingon-shinto-winter-meditation-training/ https://alvinalexander.com/personal/shinzen-young-shingon-sh... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_VizlDWcTA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_VizlDWcTA

ismail 6y ago
I came across a concept of “direct experience” with out going through normal meaning-making structures. Anyone have more details on this?
- mr_overalls 6y ago
  An emphasis on direct experience can be found throughout Buddhism, usually in the context of emphasizing its utility, while downplaying the usefulness of intellectual elaborations on Buddhist ideas. I.e., it's much better to have a single, concrete, personal experience of emptiness/non-self in meditation, than to read several volumes of Buddhist logic. If you want to trot out the doctrinal stuff, Dharmadhātu probably what you're looking for - it's the label given to purified mind in its natural state, free of obscurations. It is the essence-quality or nature of mind, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmadhatu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmadhatu
- thinkingemote 6y ago
  For hallucinations there's been some research on the brain that found that what we see is more imagined than actually there. Our brains kind of fill in the gaps by hallucinating images.
- nazgulnarsil 6y ago
  The easiest way to point to the distinction is to ask the question: in your direct experience, who came first, you or your parents?
s3cur3 6y ago
If you'd like a secular guide to experiencing this yourself, for my money, Sam Harris's Waking Up app is the best way to do it. It takes quite awhile to build up the mental toolset to get there, but it's very much worth it. https://www.wakingup.com https://www.wakingup.com
Florin_Andrei 6y ago
This is cool, but I've always felt buddhists make this too big of an issue. Yeah, the ego is just a process, like any other, but it was probably created as a result of some selection mechanism. I'm pretty sure in a situation of conflict, it's beneficial to kick the ego in higher gear. Sure, when things calm down, relax that thing. I feel pretty strongly that's the evolutionary reason for having an ego to begin with.
- mr_overalls 6y ago
  I'm not an authority on this stuff, but the rationale that resonates with me is: 1) gaining awareness of & context for the ego-narrative can HUGELY reduce psychological suffering, and 2) the ego doesn't go away for the vast majority of practitioners - it is put into perspective within a larger awareness
  - petra 6y ago
    I agree, and I find the buddhist method very useful. But it seems that ambitious people usually have strong attachment to the ego and that what drives them. And that's useful in a highly competitive society, where apartments are expensive, for example. And once you out that into a larger perspective, some of that drive gets lost.
- emptysongglass 6y ago
  It doesn't matter how it was created, it's still poison. Practicing Buddhists don't "make a big deal" of the ego out of some neurotic compulsion taken too far: the ego is seen clearly as an essential link in the chain of suffering and is dropped, breaking the chain. I invite you to directly experience it for yourself; come and see.
  - Florin_Andrei 6y ago
    I don't think we would have survived as a species in an "egoless" state. It's very nice while you have it, but it lacks all strength and drive that are necessary for great achievements or for putting up a good fight when necessary. For full perspective: I've practiced various meditation techniques my whole life - Orthodox Christian, various flavor of yoga (mostly Raja and Kundalini related stuff), even some Buddhist techniques (mostly Zen). I'm fairly familiar with the Buddhist doctrine, and Christian, and the Hindu Dharma. I've had my share of experiences, including some that looked quite ego-free - and yeah, it's awesome. I'm just saying, we shouldn't draw absolute lines here, or anywhere. The danger of narrow dogmatism is always present. And there's room for, and value in, the inner fire, the energy that builds things up and pushes things forward. That, too, is what we are. You live in a wonderful, immense house; don't confine yourself to a couple rooms only.

ismail 6y ago

I came across a concept of “direct experience” with out going through normal meaning-making structures. Anyone have more details on this?

mr_overalls 6y ago
An emphasis on direct experience can be found throughout Buddhism, usually in the context of emphasizing its utility, while downplaying the usefulness of intellectual elaborations on Buddhist ideas. I.e., it's much better to have a single, concrete, personal experience of emptiness/non-self in meditation, than to read several volumes of Buddhist logic. If you want to trot out the doctrinal stuff, Dharmadhātu probably what you're looking for - it's the label given to purified mind in its natural state, free of obscurations. It is the essence-quality or nature of mind, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmadhatu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmadhatu
thinkingemote 6y ago
For hallucinations there's been some research on the brain that found that what we see is more imagined than actually there. Our brains kind of fill in the gaps by hallucinating images.
nazgulnarsil 6y ago
The easiest way to point to the distinction is to ask the question: in your direct experience, who came first, you or your parents?

s3cur3 6y ago

If you'd like a secular guide to experiencing this yourself, for my money, Sam Harris's Waking Up app is the best way to do it. It takes quite awhile to build up the mental toolset to get there, but it's very much worth it. https://www.wakingup.com https://www.wakingup.com

Florin_Andrei 6y ago

This is cool, but I've always felt buddhists make this too big of an issue. Yeah, the ego is just a process, like any other, but it was probably created as a result of some selection mechanism. I'm pretty sure in a situation of conflict, it's beneficial to kick the ego in higher gear. Sure, when things calm down, relax that thing. I feel pretty strongly that's the evolutionary reason for having an ego to begin with.

mr_overalls 6y ago
I'm not an authority on this stuff, but the rationale that resonates with me is: 1) gaining awareness of & context for the ego-narrative can HUGELY reduce psychological suffering, and 2) the ego doesn't go away for the vast majority of practitioners - it is put into perspective within a larger awareness
- petra 6y ago
  I agree, and I find the buddhist method very useful. But it seems that ambitious people usually have strong attachment to the ego and that what drives them. And that's useful in a highly competitive society, where apartments are expensive, for example. And once you out that into a larger perspective, some of that drive gets lost.
emptysongglass 6y ago
It doesn't matter how it was created, it's still poison. Practicing Buddhists don't "make a big deal" of the ego out of some neurotic compulsion taken too far: the ego is seen clearly as an essential link in the chain of suffering and is dropped, breaking the chain. I invite you to directly experience it for yourself; come and see.
- Florin_Andrei 6y ago
  I don't think we would have survived as a species in an "egoless" state. It's very nice while you have it, but it lacks all strength and drive that are necessary for great achievements or for putting up a good fight when necessary. For full perspective: I've practiced various meditation techniques my whole life - Orthodox Christian, various flavor of yoga (mostly Raja and Kundalini related stuff), even some Buddhist techniques (mostly Zen). I'm fairly familiar with the Buddhist doctrine, and Christian, and the Hindu Dharma. I've had my share of experiences, including some that looked quite ego-free - and yeah, it's awesome. I'm just saying, we shouldn't draw absolute lines here, or anywhere. The danger of narrow dogmatism is always present. And there's room for, and value in, the inner fire, the energy that builds things up and pushes things forward. That, too, is what we are. You live in a wonderful, immense house; don't confine yourself to a couple rooms only.