5 ms·

On whose orders did we do this and why now? Of course... Israel. For all the talk about foreign meddling, we never hear anything about israel. You here endless

by disown 6y ago

On whose orders did we do this and why now? Of course... Israel. For all the talk about foreign meddling, we never hear anything about israel. You here endless propaganda about russia, china, etc, but never about israel. I'm sure putin and xi wish they had the influence in the US that israel has. Has part of a presidential election ever kicked off in moscow or beijing like trump did with israel? Can you imagine the lunatic hysteria it would have kicked off in traditional and social media? Is there any country, other than israel, that you cannot boycott as an american. You can boycott china. You can boycott russia. Heck you can even boycott america as an american. But you can't boycott israel. https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/rights-protesters/new-israel-anti-boycott-act-still-unconstitutional https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/rights-protesters/new-... Trump, Pompeo and his administration openly state that Trump exists to save Israel. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/pompeo-suggests-god-sent-trump-save-israel-n986136 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/pompeo-suggests... Not to save america, but israel. Imagine if they say they exist to save china or russia. We'd call that treason. Yes, lets investigate russian and chinese foreign meddling. But lets not stop there. Lets go deeper. Saudi meddling and all the way up to israeli meddling. Edit: Insta downvote. Interesting.

thesagan 6y ago
You’re gonna get downvoted to hell.
bigphishy 6y ago
This is interesting to note and more light should be shown on this discussion.
existencebox 6y ago
I have not posted on this account for many months for non tech topics, because discourse on HN has taken an unfortunate turn over the last few years. This is a fantastic example of it, (the greying of this comment) and so incenses me that I'm willing to speak up in defense of it. There are active measures to _prohibit boycott of israel_ in the US. This is A Fact. [0] Multiple states, as well as the ACLU, have issued rulings declaring this unconstitutional, but it blazes on. [1] We are being pushed to give up FUNDAMENTAL LIBERTIES with almost no meaningful awareness, and anyone who speaks against it is immediately labeled an antisemite. As someone married to an orthodox jew, I will say openly: the fact that these are scary moves is even discussed within _our family_ and is by no means a dogwhistle for hate, so why is it so aggressively silenced outside? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Anti-Boycott_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Anti-Boycott_Act [1] https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/congress-laws-suppressing-boycotts-israel-are-unconstitutional-sincerely-three https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/congress-laws-suppress...
- tboyd47 6y ago
  When it comes to the South or so-called Bible Belt, support for Israel is unconditional. It has transcended other political topics, including Constitutional rights, and become religious dogma. Billy Graham's ministry and the "Left Behind" series of novels were very influential there. I would be more surprised to hear an evangelical Christian criticizing Israel than a Jew or an actual Israeli.
edgarvaldes 6y ago
As a non-american the USA-Israel relationship it is interesting and weird. As an outsider an ignorant about foreign policy it seems like they are the same country, or Israel being something like an overseas american territory and not a country in itself. And I wonder, do israeli people feel the same connection with the USA?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- refurb 6y ago
  Is it really all that surprising? The Middle East is an important region to the US. Israel has friendly relations with the US. Israel is also surrounded by hostile neighbors. Why wouldn’t they have close relations?
pavlov 6y ago
Pompeo's support for Israel has a motive that goes beyond the American mainstream. He's an Evangelical Christian and believes in an imminent "Rapture" that can only happen when Biblical prophecies are fulfilled. Among these is the return of Jews to the Holy Land. [1] In other words, the Secretary of State is literally trying to bring about the end of the world. If this were Iran, people would be talking about a delusional theocracy. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/6959f506-6ee6-4d31-9372-ba34d52912f8 https://www.ft.com/content/6959f506-6ee6-4d31-9372-ba34d5291...
- cmurf 6y ago
  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pompeo-fight-battles-rapture/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pompeo-fight-battles-raptu... The juxtaposition of gay marriage ruling and rapture in his speech is, to me, identical to saying "burn all gays". The irony is this ideology is about as anti-Christian as it gets. Jesus had very few nice things to say about wealthy people, and yet Christianity Inc. loves to sell Americans on the idea of prosperity theology. The book of Job expressly states it's bullcrap. This is why I consider it a cult, they aren't that serious about the religious aspects at all, they just like the parts where some people are rewarded (physically taken to heaven, i.e. the rapture) and their non-believer enemies are all murdered.
- tomc1985 6y ago
  There are a lot of evangelicals openly wishing for the apocalypse. They've produced fetishized, low-budget war movies and animations depicting that moment. As someone who grew up in a protestant sect of Christianity it is one of the biggest things that have given me pause in supporting or participating in it. I read Left Behind, back in the day. I knew it was popular but am surprised it had such a lasting effect.
cmurf 6y ago
Pompeo and Pence are Christian Dominionists. They believe in the rapture. Armageddon is real, and to bring about the end times and second coming, 2/3rds of Jewish blood must saturate the land of Israel. The other 1/3 become Christians (of course). So they aren't friends of Israel as it seems, they need them for their perverse eschatology. Trump is the least interesting or relevant aspect.
slg 6y ago
>For all the talk about foreign meddling, we never hear anything about israel. You here endless propaganda about russia, china, etc, but never about israel. I'm sure putin and xi wish they had the influence in the US that israel has. One reason you might be downvoted is because of this false equivalency. Yes, Israel is a big player in US politics. However they do it the old fashioned way of political pressure and negotiation. This has always been allowed. I'm not making a value judgement on that, just recognizing it is traditional foreign policy behavior. The accusations against Russia and to a lesser extent China are very different. They are being accused of a new and more nefarious meddling that has included accusations of hacking, compromising politicians, and massive grass roots style propaganda efforts (maybe Israel is guilty of these too, but I haven't seen any credible accusations of such behavior). I can certainly see how someone might think all the actions from all these countries are equivalent "meddling", but from a legal and tradition standpoint it is like comparing lobbying with straight bribery. One is much more acceptable than the other.
- mikem170 6y ago
  >However they do it the old fashioned way of political pressure and negotiation. Jonathan Pollard would be the biggest contrary example. Here's an article talking about all kinds of other spying that Israel done in the U.S., enough that: "The intelligence community would always be urging the highest level of threats, while the State Department would be saying, 'This is not going to go over very well, we can't give this kind of rating, because there will be certain consequences in terms of travel warnings and restrictions.'" https://www.newsweek.com/israels-aggressive-spying-us-mostly-hushed-250278 https://www.newsweek.com/israels-aggressive-spying-us-mostly...
  - slg 6y ago
    Once again this is traditional old foreign policy activity. We are probably doing the exact same spying on them. I'm not saying it is right, but it is accepted as a reality. It is different when this information is gathered for informational purposes which appears to be the case for Israel rather than when it is dumped on Wikileaks to achieve a specific political end like with the accusations of Russian meddling.
kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
The American MIC needs dependable world conflict to drive demand for its products. That's why we give Israel billions and they give it back to us for weapons.

by disown 6y ago

thesagan 6y ago

You’re gonna get downvoted to hell.

bigphishy 6y ago

This is interesting to note and more light should be shown on this discussion.

existencebox 6y ago

I have not posted on this account for many months for non tech topics, because discourse on HN has taken an unfortunate turn over the last few years. This is a fantastic example of it, (the greying of this comment) and so incenses me that I'm willing to speak up in defense of it. There are active measures to _prohibit boycott of israel_ in the US. This is A Fact. [0] Multiple states, as well as the ACLU, have issued rulings declaring this unconstitutional, but it blazes on. [1] We are being pushed to give up FUNDAMENTAL LIBERTIES with almost no meaningful awareness, and anyone who speaks against it is immediately labeled an antisemite. As someone married to an orthodox jew, I will say openly: the fact that these are scary moves is even discussed within _our family_ and is by no means a dogwhistle for hate, so why is it so aggressively silenced outside? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Anti-Boycott_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Anti-Boycott_Act [1] https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/congress-laws-suppressing-boycotts-israel-are-unconstitutional-sincerely-three https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/congress-laws-suppress...

tboyd47 6y ago
When it comes to the South or so-called Bible Belt, support for Israel is unconditional. It has transcended other political topics, including Constitutional rights, and become religious dogma. Billy Graham's ministry and the "Left Behind" series of novels were very influential there. I would be more surprised to hear an evangelical Christian criticizing Israel than a Jew or an actual Israeli.

edgarvaldes 6y ago

As a non-american the USA-Israel relationship it is interesting and weird. As an outsider an ignorant about foreign policy it seems like they are the same country, or Israel being something like an overseas american territory and not a country in itself. And I wonder, do israeli people feel the same connection with the USA?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
refurb 6y ago
Is it really all that surprising? The Middle East is an important region to the US. Israel has friendly relations with the US. Israel is also surrounded by hostile neighbors. Why wouldn’t they have close relations?

pavlov 6y ago

Pompeo's support for Israel has a motive that goes beyond the American mainstream. He's an Evangelical Christian and believes in an imminent "Rapture" that can only happen when Biblical prophecies are fulfilled. Among these is the return of Jews to the Holy Land. [1] In other words, the Secretary of State is literally trying to bring about the end of the world. If this were Iran, people would be talking about a delusional theocracy. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/6959f506-6ee6-4d31-9372-ba34d52912f8 https://www.ft.com/content/6959f506-6ee6-4d31-9372-ba34d5291...

cmurf 6y ago
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pompeo-fight-battles-rapture/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pompeo-fight-battles-raptu... The juxtaposition of gay marriage ruling and rapture in his speech is, to me, identical to saying "burn all gays". The irony is this ideology is about as anti-Christian as it gets. Jesus had very few nice things to say about wealthy people, and yet Christianity Inc. loves to sell Americans on the idea of prosperity theology. The book of Job expressly states it's bullcrap. This is why I consider it a cult, they aren't that serious about the religious aspects at all, they just like the parts where some people are rewarded (physically taken to heaven, i.e. the rapture) and their non-believer enemies are all murdered.
tomc1985 6y ago
There are a lot of evangelicals openly wishing for the apocalypse. They've produced fetishized, low-budget war movies and animations depicting that moment. As someone who grew up in a protestant sect of Christianity it is one of the biggest things that have given me pause in supporting or participating in it. I read Left Behind, back in the day. I knew it was popular but am surprised it had such a lasting effect.

cmurf 6y ago

Pompeo and Pence are Christian Dominionists. They believe in the rapture. Armageddon is real, and to bring about the end times and second coming, 2/3rds of Jewish blood must saturate the land of Israel. The other 1/3 become Christians (of course). So they aren't friends of Israel as it seems, they need them for their perverse eschatology. Trump is the least interesting or relevant aspect.

slg 6y ago

>For all the talk about foreign meddling, we never hear anything about israel. You here endless propaganda about russia, china, etc, but never about israel. I'm sure putin and xi wish they had the influence in the US that israel has. One reason you might be downvoted is because of this false equivalency. Yes, Israel is a big player in US politics. However they do it the old fashioned way of political pressure and negotiation. This has always been allowed. I'm not making a value judgement on that, just recognizing it is traditional foreign policy behavior. The accusations against Russia and to a lesser extent China are very different. They are being accused of a new and more nefarious meddling that has included accusations of hacking, compromising politicians, and massive grass roots style propaganda efforts (maybe Israel is guilty of these too, but I haven't seen any credible accusations of such behavior). I can certainly see how someone might think all the actions from all these countries are equivalent "meddling", but from a legal and tradition standpoint it is like comparing lobbying with straight bribery. One is much more acceptable than the other.

mikem170 6y ago
>However they do it the old fashioned way of political pressure and negotiation. Jonathan Pollard would be the biggest contrary example. Here's an article talking about all kinds of other spying that Israel done in the U.S., enough that: "The intelligence community would always be urging the highest level of threats, while the State Department would be saying, 'This is not going to go over very well, we can't give this kind of rating, because there will be certain consequences in terms of travel warnings and restrictions.'" https://www.newsweek.com/israels-aggressive-spying-us-mostly-hushed-250278 https://www.newsweek.com/israels-aggressive-spying-us-mostly...
- slg 6y ago
  Once again this is traditional old foreign policy activity. We are probably doing the exact same spying on them. I'm not saying it is right, but it is accepted as a reality. It is different when this information is gathered for informational purposes which appears to be the case for Israel rather than when it is dumped on Wikileaks to achieve a specific political end like with the accusations of Russian meddling.

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago

The American MIC needs dependable world conflict to drive demand for its products. That's why we give Israel billions and they give it back to us for weapons.