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This. Also, I’m astonished that Boeing continues to talk about when it’ll deliver the 737 Max when no-one will ever willingly fly in one of those planes. Even

This. Also, I’m astonished that Boeing continues to talk about when it’ll deliver the 737 Max when no-one will ever willingly fly in one of those planes. Even their own staff have said in writing that they wouldn’t let their families fly in one of those planes. Boeing’s utter lack of awareness of the gravity of the situation continues to amaze as much as the absurdity of this statement.

derwiki 6y ago
No one? There are a lot of people who fly but don’t follow the news and have missed all of this. And then others who will forget/not check every time they fly.
- sjm-lbm 6y ago
  I fly, follow the news, and assume I'll probably fly one one at some point because there's not enough alternative options. It's not what I want, but if they have a fix proven out by a lot of successful flight time and a MAX flight has the arrival time I need.. why not? Part of the reason Boeing is going to survive is the pure fact that Airbus can't make enough airplanes to cover the market.
  - pydry 6y ago
    China and Airbus together probably can. China already has a 737 MAX competitor - the COMAC C919. People have been a bit wary of Chinese safety but Boeing kind of gifted them the benefit of the doubt on that front.
    - dirtyid 6y ago
      COMAC is nowhere near ready and will have to prove itself in the domestic market before international rollout. That said Chinese aviation safety is among the best after a very rough start, but the real issue is airplane sales involve geopolitics, and geopolitics is not looking favourable by the time COMAC is ready. >gifted them the benefit of the doubt on that front I haven't seen anyone discuss this, but China was responsible for (justifiably) grounding the MAX around the world and crippling Boeing short term. CAAC was the first to ground Chinese MAX fleet after Ethiopian crash, which inspired everyone else to despite FAA insisting MAX airworthiness. I'm sure US is going to remember that when COMAC is open for deliveries, not that the US will ever buy, but the smearing is going to be rough.
      - pydry 6y ago
        US won't ever buy COMAC. It's much too protectionist. Other countries will. I expect Ethiopia will be happy to buy COMAC. As will most other countries in the world that witnessed this shitshow. The plane is pretty much ready. It'll start flying in 2021.
natch 6y ago
They’re also renaming it so it will be easier to get around this problem. I find this sneaky.
toast0 6y ago
I'm sure there will be some people who refuse to fly on 737 Max. Those people will have to track airlines and routes to avoid airlines that fly 737 Max and/or routes where 737 Max is used, but also they're going to need to be willing to turn around in the jetway when they get to the plane and it's not the one that's scheduled and accept that they just lit their ticket on fire, and will have to pay for a new one. When Boeing starts shipping 737-8200 instead of 737 Max 8, then most people are going to be releaved that they're not on a Max, when they are. Personally, I'd like to see what experts think about the fixes, and let other people try out the planes first, but this doesn't seem like an unfixable problem. The proposed fixes seem to me like they'll be effective even if I think other changes would be better. Although there was a lot of new scrutiny, there weren't many other issues uncovered.
xxpor 6y ago
But I bet you'll still get in a car to go to the airport.
- LinuxBender 6y ago
  I used to say something similar, but then someone challenged me to listen to all the ATC conversations, so I did. There are literally thousands of mayday's and pan-pans called every year, many that come dangerously close to a crash. The passengers rarely even know something is going horribly wrong. It seems those planes are really old and falling apart. At least, that is the perception I take away. I am really impressed with the flight crews ability to work as a team to get the thing on the ground upright most of the time while remaining calm on the radio. Don't get me wrong, I love flying and plan to get my pilots license some day. I am just not a fan of the aging fleet and very dated technology.
donarb 6y ago
After the E. coli incident at Jack in the Box, people flocked to eat there. Who wouldn't, since they were so heavily scrutinized during their mitigation period.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Same thing happened with post-BP gulf coast seafood.
jimbob45 6y ago
They could still be used for cargo shipping. I’m not saying that Boeing isn’t taking a huge loss on this because they 100% are but I can certainly envision scenarios that begin to mitigate that loss.
dylan604 6y ago
Astonished? Really? They have sooooo much money tied up in this plane. They have soooo much money in orders to fulfill. It's not like they can just say, "instead of the 737Max you ordered, we're giving you this nice 777 instead". Of course they want this plane back in the air as quickly as possible. The airlines do too (maybe less with COVID).

derwiki 6y ago

No one? There are a lot of people who fly but don’t follow the news and have missed all of this. And then others who will forget/not check every time they fly.

sjm-lbm 6y ago
I fly, follow the news, and assume I'll probably fly one one at some point because there's not enough alternative options. It's not what I want, but if they have a fix proven out by a lot of successful flight time and a MAX flight has the arrival time I need.. why not? Part of the reason Boeing is going to survive is the pure fact that Airbus can't make enough airplanes to cover the market.
- pydry 6y ago
  China and Airbus together probably can. China already has a 737 MAX competitor - the COMAC C919. People have been a bit wary of Chinese safety but Boeing kind of gifted them the benefit of the doubt on that front.
  - dirtyid 6y ago
    COMAC is nowhere near ready and will have to prove itself in the domestic market before international rollout. That said Chinese aviation safety is among the best after a very rough start, but the real issue is airplane sales involve geopolitics, and geopolitics is not looking favourable by the time COMAC is ready. >gifted them the benefit of the doubt on that front I haven't seen anyone discuss this, but China was responsible for (justifiably) grounding the MAX around the world and crippling Boeing short term. CAAC was the first to ground Chinese MAX fleet after Ethiopian crash, which inspired everyone else to despite FAA insisting MAX airworthiness. I'm sure US is going to remember that when COMAC is open for deliveries, not that the US will ever buy, but the smearing is going to be rough.
    - pydry 6y ago
      US won't ever buy COMAC. It's much too protectionist. Other countries will. I expect Ethiopia will be happy to buy COMAC. As will most other countries in the world that witnessed this shitshow. The plane is pretty much ready. It'll start flying in 2021.

natch 6y ago

They’re also renaming it so it will be easier to get around this problem. I find this sneaky.

toast0 6y ago

I'm sure there will be some people who refuse to fly on 737 Max. Those people will have to track airlines and routes to avoid airlines that fly 737 Max and/or routes where 737 Max is used, but also they're going to need to be willing to turn around in the jetway when they get to the plane and it's not the one that's scheduled and accept that they just lit their ticket on fire, and will have to pay for a new one. When Boeing starts shipping 737-8200 instead of 737 Max 8, then most people are going to be releaved that they're not on a Max, when they are. Personally, I'd like to see what experts think about the fixes, and let other people try out the planes first, but this doesn't seem like an unfixable problem. The proposed fixes seem to me like they'll be effective even if I think other changes would be better. Although there was a lot of new scrutiny, there weren't many other issues uncovered.

xxpor 6y ago

But I bet you'll still get in a car to go to the airport.

LinuxBender 6y ago
I used to say something similar, but then someone challenged me to listen to all the ATC conversations, so I did. There are literally thousands of mayday's and pan-pans called every year, many that come dangerously close to a crash. The passengers rarely even know something is going horribly wrong. It seems those planes are really old and falling apart. At least, that is the perception I take away. I am really impressed with the flight crews ability to work as a team to get the thing on the ground upright most of the time while remaining calm on the radio. Don't get me wrong, I love flying and plan to get my pilots license some day. I am just not a fan of the aging fleet and very dated technology.

donarb 6y ago

After the E. coli incident at Jack in the Box, people flocked to eat there. Who wouldn't, since they were so heavily scrutinized during their mitigation period.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Same thing happened with post-BP gulf coast seafood.

jimbob45 6y ago

They could still be used for cargo shipping. I’m not saying that Boeing isn’t taking a huge loss on this because they 100% are but I can certainly envision scenarios that begin to mitigate that loss.

dylan604 6y ago

Astonished? Really? They have sooooo much money tied up in this plane. They have soooo much money in orders to fulfill. It's not like they can just say, "instead of the 737Max you ordered, we're giving you this nice 777 instead". Of course they want this plane back in the air as quickly as possible. The airlines do too (maybe less with COVID).