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>>We should absolutely be blaming the individual in this case. Extreme case: Your employer tells you to stay alert in a super-boring job for 8 straight hours o

>>We should absolutely be blaming the individual in this case. Extreme case: Your employer tells you to stay alert in a super-boring job for 8 straight hours or else a person can die or whatever. But that may be an impossibility due to how our brain works. I'd like to know how many hours was he sitting there and how often did he have to intervene that day /week /month. Uber, maybe, should have had another one checking now and then on drivers. Say one for 10 drivers...

pc86 6y ago
If she had fallen asleep or something I would be inclined to agree with you, but she was on her phone while she was supposed to be "driving." Boring or not it seems pretty obvious that you shouldn't be on your phone when you're in charge of a moving vehicle.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
dependenttypes 6y ago
If she could not do the job then she should have resigned. Edit: there was another post by [redacted] but it disappeared, it does not even show as deleted, weird. It said: "This isn't some ride along in a consumer grade EV. They were gathering data to program the car with. The emergency braking systems were not active. The person that was supposed to be monitoring the vehicle knew this."
- dang 6y ago
  When a commenter deletes their comment, it disappears. It would probably be more respectful not to copy what they posted along with their username. Actually, I think we'd better redact the username from your quote. People sometimes have important personal reasons for deleting things. The odds aren't high that it matters but the impact could be high if it did.
  - dependenttypes 6y ago
    It would be probably be more respectful if you would not mess with my posts, now even I do not know who made said comment. Guess I should start signing my posts and keep backups of them. People sometimes have important personal reasons for deleting things but this does not mean anything. It is not as if "x posted y on twitter and deleted it afterwards" or "the page was edited/deleted, here is an archive.org link" is uncommon on HN, nor it is as if a stalker would not be able to scrap HN posts of someone instantly as they were posted. > it disappears. In my experience they show as [deleted] but I guess this is only for posts that have replies.
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      > In my experience they show as [deleted] but I guess this is only for posts that have replies. Kind of. Technically, posts that have replies can't be deleted, so what sometimes happens is the poster edits their post and replaces all the text with "[deleted]".
      - krapp 6y ago
        >Technically, posts that have replies can't be deleted, so what sometimes happens is the poster edits their post and replaces all the text with "[deleted]". Which should also be prohibited, because it's just as destructive. You shouldn't be able to edit a post with replies either.
        Wowfunhappy 6y ago
        I don't know, if my posts were locked after the first reply, my contributions to HN would be definitively worse. I almost always find confusing typos and grammar errors, and things that just could have been stated better, after initially posting a comment, and I use edits to fix those problems. Yes, ideally I would just do more revising before posting a comment the first time, but I don't seem to work that way. I think the two-hour window is a good compromise, and if anything I really wish it was longer. Yes it has downsides, but I really think they're outweighed by the good.
crazygringo 6y ago
If by "how our brain works" you mean our biological response times or alertness then sure. But if you mean watching a TV show to distract themselves then not in a million years. Uber's training or setup may well prove to be negligent... but this employee took the active, conscious step of watching a TV show on her phone when her entire job was to supervise the car's driving and safety of others. If that's not criminal negligence, I really don't know what is.
Cd00d 6y ago
Recognition of human capabilities in attention in repetitive tasks is important. As an earlier commenter said, lifeguards are limited to 30 minute intervals in their experience. I think baggage screeners with TSA (this is not an endorsement or attack on 'security theater', but an acknowledgement of how they address this issue) have similar time limitations due to focus drop off. I think the TSA also keeps scanners on their toes by digitally placing contraband in the bag pictures at various intervals to make sure the scanner is able to stay engaged (and maybe to get some metrics on hit/miss rates). Maybe these supervised self driving cars need to project a deer jumping into the road and log the driver's response or something.

pc86 6y ago

If she had fallen asleep or something I would be inclined to agree with you, but she was on her phone while she was supposed to be "driving." Boring or not it seems pretty obvious that you shouldn't be on your phone when you're in charge of a moving vehicle.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

dependenttypes 6y ago

If she could not do the job then she should have resigned. Edit: there was another post by [redacted] but it disappeared, it does not even show as deleted, weird. It said: "This isn't some ride along in a consumer grade EV. They were gathering data to program the car with. The emergency braking systems were not active. The person that was supposed to be monitoring the vehicle knew this."

dang 6y ago
When a commenter deletes their comment, it disappears. It would probably be more respectful not to copy what they posted along with their username. Actually, I think we'd better redact the username from your quote. People sometimes have important personal reasons for deleting things. The odds aren't high that it matters but the impact could be high if it did.
- dependenttypes 6y ago
  It would be probably be more respectful if you would not mess with my posts, now even I do not know who made said comment. Guess I should start signing my posts and keep backups of them. People sometimes have important personal reasons for deleting things but this does not mean anything. It is not as if "x posted y on twitter and deleted it afterwards" or "the page was edited/deleted, here is an archive.org link" is uncommon on HN, nor it is as if a stalker would not be able to scrap HN posts of someone instantly as they were posted. > it disappears. In my experience they show as [deleted] but I guess this is only for posts that have replies.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    > In my experience they show as [deleted] but I guess this is only for posts that have replies. Kind of. Technically, posts that have replies can't be deleted, so what sometimes happens is the poster edits their post and replaces all the text with "[deleted]".
    - krapp 6y ago
      >Technically, posts that have replies can't be deleted, so what sometimes happens is the poster edits their post and replaces all the text with "[deleted]". Which should also be prohibited, because it's just as destructive. You shouldn't be able to edit a post with replies either.
      - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
        I don't know, if my posts were locked after the first reply, my contributions to HN would be definitively worse. I almost always find confusing typos and grammar errors, and things that just could have been stated better, after initially posting a comment, and I use edits to fix those problems. Yes, ideally I would just do more revising before posting a comment the first time, but I don't seem to work that way. I think the two-hour window is a good compromise, and if anything I really wish it was longer. Yes it has downsides, but I really think they're outweighed by the good.

crazygringo 6y ago

If by "how our brain works" you mean our biological response times or alertness then sure. But if you mean watching a TV show to distract themselves then not in a million years. Uber's training or setup may well prove to be negligent... but this employee took the active, conscious step of watching a TV show on her phone when her entire job was to supervise the car's driving and safety of others. If that's not criminal negligence, I really don't know what is.

Cd00d 6y ago

Recognition of human capabilities in attention in repetitive tasks is important. As an earlier commenter said, lifeguards are limited to 30 minute intervals in their experience. I think baggage screeners with TSA (this is not an endorsement or attack on 'security theater', but an acknowledgement of how they address this issue) have similar time limitations due to focus drop off. I think the TSA also keeps scanners on their toes by digitally placing contraband in the bag pictures at various intervals to make sure the scanner is able to stay engaged (and maybe to get some metrics on hit/miss rates). Maybe these supervised self driving cars need to project a deer jumping into the road and log the driver's response or something.