4 ms·

Even less people know that the total number of casualties of WW II was about 70 million. Many people in the West are under impression that WW II was all about J

by mamon 6y ago

Even less people know that the total number of casualties of WW II was about 70 million. Many people in the West are under impression that WW II was all about Jews. It wasn't. Even Holocaust wasn't solely about Jews, as they were also people of other nationalities killed in death camps.

watwut 6y ago
Holocaust is by definition only about Jews. Holocaust is not about all the people who died in camps nor only people who died in camps. It is specifically word for genocide of Jews during WWII.
- rasz 6y ago
  So a person hiding Jewish child, caught by being denounced by another Jew (1), send to concentration camp and killed is not a victim of Holocaust? 1. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/life-in-shadows-hidden-children-and-the-holocaust https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/life-in-sh...
  - watwut 6y ago
    It would not count as a victim of Holocaust for statistical purpose. The child would count. I dont think it should count for that stat. The denouncer nationality is completely irrelevant to categorization. You have non-Jewish victims of persecution by Nazi, for multiple reasons. Quite a lot of them, but these are separate from holocaust.
- DanBC 6y ago
  There isn't international agreement on the definition of Holocaust. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/introduction-to-the-holocaust https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/introducti... > Holocaust, Hebrew Shoʾah (“Catastrophe”), Yiddish and Hebrew Ḥurban (“Destruction”), the systematic state-sponsored killing of six million Jewish men, women, and children and millions of others by NaziGermany and its collaborators during World War II. The Germans called this “the final solution to the Jewish question.” Yiddish-speaking Jews and survivors in the years immediately following their liberation called the murder of the Jews the Ḥurban, the word used to describe the destruction of the First Temple in Jerusalem by the Babylonians in 586 bce and the destruction of the Second Temple by the Romans in 70 ce. Shoʾah (“Catastrophe”) is the term preferred by Israelis and the French, most especially after Claude Lanzmann’s masterful 1985 motion picture documentary of that title. It is also preferred by people who speak Hebrew and by those who want to be more particular about the Jewish experience or who are uncomfortable with the religious connotations of the word Holocaust. Less universal and more particular, Shoʾah emphasizes the annihilation of the Jews, not the totality of Nazi victims. Versus https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/introduction-to-the-holocaust https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/introducti... > The Holocaust was the systematic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of six million Jews by the Nazi regime and its allies and collaborators. Holocaust is a word of Greek origin meaning "sacrifice by fire." The Nazis, who came to power in Germany in January 1933, believed that Germans were "racially superior" and that the Jews, deemed "inferior," were an alien threat to the so-called German racial community. > During the era of the Holocaust, German authorities also targeted other groups because of their perceived racial and biological inferiority: Roma (Gypsies), people with disabilities, some of the Slavic peoples (Poles, Russians, and others), Soviet prisoners of war, and Black people. Other groups were persecuted on political, ideological, and behavioral grounds, among them Communists, Socialists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and homosexuals.
  - watwut 6y ago
    The two links are identical, the first one is likely wrong. The linked article focuses on Jews and seems to define Holocaust itself as Jew issue - while trying to make sure reader knows that is not the only atrocity that was going on at the time. I think that the other groups being mentioned too is not to define Holocaust through their murder, but to not make impression it was just that. The first quote is confusing, because it simultaneously counts in "and millions of others" while also saying "The Germans called this “the final solution to the Jewish question.”". And then turning again to say that it represents totality of victims and supposedly Sho'ah should be word. I have never seen Shoʾah being used in English language. I have seen that in France, but it was in French language.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]

by mamon 6y ago

watwut 6y ago

Holocaust is by definition only about Jews. Holocaust is not about all the people who died in camps nor only people who died in camps. It is specifically word for genocide of Jews during WWII.

rasz 6y ago
So a person hiding Jewish child, caught by being denounced by another Jew (1), send to concentration camp and killed is not a victim of Holocaust? 1. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/life-in-shadows-hidden-children-and-the-holocaust https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/life-in-sh...
- watwut 6y ago
  It would not count as a victim of Holocaust for statistical purpose. The child would count. I dont think it should count for that stat. The denouncer nationality is completely irrelevant to categorization. You have non-Jewish victims of persecution by Nazi, for multiple reasons. Quite a lot of them, but these are separate from holocaust.
DanBC 6y ago
There isn't international agreement on the definition of Holocaust. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/introduction-to-the-holocaust https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/introducti... > Holocaust, Hebrew Shoʾah (“Catastrophe”), Yiddish and Hebrew Ḥurban (“Destruction”), the systematic state-sponsored killing of six million Jewish men, women, and children and millions of others by NaziGermany and its collaborators during World War II. The Germans called this “the final solution to the Jewish question.” Yiddish-speaking Jews and survivors in the years immediately following their liberation called the murder of the Jews the Ḥurban, the word used to describe the destruction of the First Temple in Jerusalem by the Babylonians in 586 bce and the destruction of the Second Temple by the Romans in 70 ce. Shoʾah (“Catastrophe”) is the term preferred by Israelis and the French, most especially after Claude Lanzmann’s masterful 1985 motion picture documentary of that title. It is also preferred by people who speak Hebrew and by those who want to be more particular about the Jewish experience or who are uncomfortable with the religious connotations of the word Holocaust. Less universal and more particular, Shoʾah emphasizes the annihilation of the Jews, not the totality of Nazi victims. Versus https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/introduction-to-the-holocaust https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/introducti... > The Holocaust was the systematic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of six million Jews by the Nazi regime and its allies and collaborators. Holocaust is a word of Greek origin meaning "sacrifice by fire." The Nazis, who came to power in Germany in January 1933, believed that Germans were "racially superior" and that the Jews, deemed "inferior," were an alien threat to the so-called German racial community. > During the era of the Holocaust, German authorities also targeted other groups because of their perceived racial and biological inferiority: Roma (Gypsies), people with disabilities, some of the Slavic peoples (Poles, Russians, and others), Soviet prisoners of war, and Black people. Other groups were persecuted on political, ideological, and behavioral grounds, among them Communists, Socialists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and homosexuals.
- watwut 6y ago
  The two links are identical, the first one is likely wrong. The linked article focuses on Jews and seems to define Holocaust itself as Jew issue - while trying to make sure reader knows that is not the only atrocity that was going on at the time. I think that the other groups being mentioned too is not to define Holocaust through their murder, but to not make impression it was just that. The first quote is confusing, because it simultaneously counts in "and millions of others" while also saying "The Germans called this “the final solution to the Jewish question.”". And then turning again to say that it represents totality of victims and supposedly Sho'ah should be word. I have never seen Shoʾah being used in English language. I have seen that in France, but it was in French language.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]