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Every company is a monopoly based on how you define the market. Why should we focus only on online ads ? Why not look at the entire ad spend and then see what %

Every company is a monopoly based on how you define the market. Why should we focus only on online ads ? Why not look at the entire ad spend and then see what % is controlled by Google ? By some logic the coffee shop in my block has a monopoly on coffee if their market is the block. They are irrelevant if you look at the entire city.

tannhaeuser 6y ago
That's too relativistic. If only AMZN, GOOG, and FB gain during coronavirus, this clearly means there's need for action considering the perspective of online-only advertising going forward. Especially if the success of TikTok as the only competitor in the space has resulted in government influence.
- Nasrudith 6y ago
  That sounds like an attempt to maintain "never my fault" consistency akin to stating we need to beat all people at traffic stops instead of admitting that beating people at traffic stops to look good on crime in the first place was criminally wrong.
  - tannhaeuser 6y ago
    Not sure if I understand what you're saying, but it's not about criminal law, whether anyone did something wrong, or punishment; rather it's about maintaining market access.
    - Nasrudith 6y ago
      What I am saying is that Tiktok's treatment was clear capricious abuse of power and shouldn't be taken as a standard or baseline.
AnthonyMouse 6y ago
Which is why market definition requires you to look at substitution. If there is another coffee shop two blocks away and your coffee shop raised prices significantly, people would start going to the other one, because they're strong substitutes for one another. Whereas if the nearest coffee shop was twenty blocks away, likely they wouldn't, because that's too far to walk and it doesn't make sense to pay $2.75 to ride the subway to save $1.50 on a cup of coffee. So the block is too small but the whole city is too big. > Why not look at the entire ad spend and then see what % is controlled by Google ? Because they would be reaching different customers, such that if the advertiser moved a dollar from e.g. online to print, they would lose customers, because the print viewers have already seen their ad from the existing print advertising they do, and the online viewers (who are different people) haven't. Which means they aren't adequate substitutes for one another.
AmericanChopper 6y ago
Being a monopoly is actually irrelevant. The anti-trust law in the US focuses on regulating anti-competitive business practices. You can implement anti-competitive business practices with any portion of the market, and you can have an outright monopoly without implementing any anti-competitive practices (and therefor without breaking the law). But to successfully implement anti-competitive practices, you do usually need a significant portion of market share. Which is pretty much what’s being discussed here, even though it’s not a very accurate use of the word. You can also do it by acting as a cartel, which is another situation commonly (though not very accurately) described as a monopoly.
Ensorceled 6y ago
Bizarre that you are equivocating a local coffee shop to online advertising; the emergence of which gutted the magazine industry, severely damaged and forever changed print news, and was single-handedly responsible for pushing Alphabet and Facebook into the Fortune 50.
elliekelly 6y ago
Even in that extreme hypothetical I’m not sure it would be considered a monopoly - is there a convenience store on the block? A grocery store? A bakery? The market for “coffee on a given block” isn’t limited to coffee shops.

tannhaeuser 6y ago

That's too relativistic. If only AMZN, GOOG, and FB gain during coronavirus, this clearly means there's need for action considering the perspective of online-only advertising going forward. Especially if the success of TikTok as the only competitor in the space has resulted in government influence.

Nasrudith 6y ago
That sounds like an attempt to maintain "never my fault" consistency akin to stating we need to beat all people at traffic stops instead of admitting that beating people at traffic stops to look good on crime in the first place was criminally wrong.
- tannhaeuser 6y ago
  Not sure if I understand what you're saying, but it's not about criminal law, whether anyone did something wrong, or punishment; rather it's about maintaining market access.
  - Nasrudith 6y ago
    What I am saying is that Tiktok's treatment was clear capricious abuse of power and shouldn't be taken as a standard or baseline.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago

Which is why market definition requires you to look at substitution. If there is another coffee shop two blocks away and your coffee shop raised prices significantly, people would start going to the other one, because they're strong substitutes for one another. Whereas if the nearest coffee shop was twenty blocks away, likely they wouldn't, because that's too far to walk and it doesn't make sense to pay $2.75 to ride the subway to save $1.50 on a cup of coffee. So the block is too small but the whole city is too big. > Why not look at the entire ad spend and then see what % is controlled by Google ? Because they would be reaching different customers, such that if the advertiser moved a dollar from e.g. online to print, they would lose customers, because the print viewers have already seen their ad from the existing print advertising they do, and the online viewers (who are different people) haven't. Which means they aren't adequate substitutes for one another.

AmericanChopper 6y ago

Being a monopoly is actually irrelevant. The anti-trust law in the US focuses on regulating anti-competitive business practices. You can implement anti-competitive business practices with any portion of the market, and you can have an outright monopoly without implementing any anti-competitive practices (and therefor without breaking the law). But to successfully implement anti-competitive practices, you do usually need a significant portion of market share. Which is pretty much what’s being discussed here, even though it’s not a very accurate use of the word. You can also do it by acting as a cartel, which is another situation commonly (though not very accurately) described as a monopoly.

Ensorceled 6y ago

Bizarre that you are equivocating a local coffee shop to online advertising; the emergence of which gutted the magazine industry, severely damaged and forever changed print news, and was single-handedly responsible for pushing Alphabet and Facebook into the Fortune 50.

elliekelly 6y ago

Even in that extreme hypothetical I’m not sure it would be considered a monopoly - is there a convenience store on the block? A grocery store? A bakery? The market for “coffee on a given block” isn’t limited to coffee shops.