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Nearly two-thirds of US adults unaware 6m Jews killed in the Holocaust – study
- glaucon 6y agoI'm hesitant to undermine the substance of the report but when it's mentioned "Six out of 10 respondents in Texas could not name a single concentration camp or ghetto" my first thought was to ask what other facts might we be surprised to hear were unknown to the same group ? For more than half of that group to not know the name of any concentration is hardly ideal but if the same proportion of people were unable to give you a coherent summary of the events of the Second World War it's a lot less significant. By contrast the parts of the report which touch on "constructed facts" (e.g. "Jews caused the holocaust") are potentially more troubling. They too might be due to ignorance (Q: "Did the Jew cause the holocaust ?", A:"Errrh, Yes ?") but equally could be due to empty vessels being filled with something nasty.
- 082349872349872 6y agoI couldn't find the survey itself, neither at http://www.claimscon.org/news-media/publications/ http://www.claimscon.org/news-media/publications/ nor http://www.claimscon.org/news-media/ http://www.claimscon.org/news-media/ . Schoen Consulting doesn't trivially appear in a search. 69% for france, 58% for austria (millenial and gen Z respondents). Interestingly, the french and austrians both modally respond that there are "few" neo nazis in their countries, but "a great deal or many" in the US. The surveys were taken close to 27 January, so I hope those perceptions mostly reflect Charlottesville. 80% of respondents in all three countries thought it should be taught.
- zimpenfish 6y agoThis seems to be the survey summary - http://www.claimscon.org/millennial-study/ http://www.claimscon.org/millennial-study/ - with breakouts like http://www.claimscon.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/NO-WATERMARK-State-by-State-Executive-Summary-Millennial-US-Study-9.10.2020-EMBARGOED_added-language.pdf http://www.claimscon.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/NO-WATER... and per-state breakouts like http://www.claimscon.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Millennial-Holocaust-Survey-KANSAS-TOPLINE-8.11.20.pdf http://www.claimscon.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Millenni... which gives you the script (although nothing more than percentages for the responses.)
- thanatos519 6y agoNearly nine-tenths of US adults are probably unaware that 20m Russian soliders died in WWII.
- zimpenfish 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Human_losses_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Human_... has military deaths for the Soviet Union at between 8 and 11M - bad but some way short of 20M.
- asimjalis 6y agoWho are you going to believe? An anonymous poster on Wikipedia or an anonymous poster on HN?
- zimpenfish 6y agoThe anonymous poster(s) on Wikipedia do include links to sources, including, e.g., http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/SovietLosses.pdf http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/SovietLosses.pd... which has the 11M estimate and seems reasonably well researched.
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- pacificmint 6y agoFor soldiers, that’s correct. However, if you include civilian deaths you do hit the 20 million number. And that’s the lower estimate.
- zimpenfish 6y agoYes, but the original statement specifically said 20M soldiers, not "soldiers and civilians".
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- aaron695 6y agoHow many know the kill count of Cambodia under Pol Pot? It's more recent and after the "Never again" The entire propaganda behind the Holocaust is so we don't repeat it, yet no one cares when we do. So I'm a little lost on why we should care? Will this survey help the Rohingya people today?
- 082349872349872 6y agoMaybe I'm too cynical, but I suspect that might have something to do with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_United_States_support_for_the_Khmer_Rouge#Undisputed_US_support https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_United_States_s... . Genocidal is bad, and communist is bad, but genocidal communists are not half bad when they're enemies of enemies. Edit: ~2M (the truly horrifying part being that that was a quarter of the original 8M population)
- mola 6y agoIn both genocide cases there's huge ignorancy. Your comment is unwarranted. Both because you note on a differentiator in a case where there's not a big difference. And because your explanation assumes much more than a simpler explanation: Most Americans are pretty much ignorant, they call the US "the world", they hardly know history that is directly related to them, let alone somewhere far away.
- mola 6y agoWhy shouldn't you care? You obviously think a genocide is a big injustice. Your frustrations with injustices cause you to belittle another injustice and even call the actual act of rememberance "propoganda". People should care, about both examples of human atrocities, the lesson should be universal, but it's up to us to fight for that. Belittling the holocaust doesn't do anything to help the fight for this cause. if anything, it hurts it.
- aaron695 6y agoThe fact if you don't lie to support a cause you are the enemy is part of today's problem. Expecting people to know intricacies of something further in the past but nothing about the ones after is not normal. Sarah Silverman on the Holocaust - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8z5wBwY5Zw&feature=youtu.be&t=67 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8z5wBwY5Zw&feature=youtu.be...
- 082349872349872 6y agoCould we please have a title edit? As of writing, it's titled: "Nearly two-thirds of US young adults unaware 6m Jews killed in the Holocaust" "According to survey of adults 18-39 ..."
- ploika 6y agoSurely someone in their thirties is just an adult, not a young adult.
- kubanczyk 6y agoThe article does not include US adults aged 40+ and it's explicit about it. It is just misinformation to widen the claim to two-thirds of all the US adults.
- 082349872349872 6y agoEven the two-thirds unaware is slightly widened. From http://www.claimscon.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Millennial-Holocaust-Survey-KANSAS-TOPLINE-8.11.20.pdf http://www.claimscon.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Millenni... (thanks, zimpenfish!) page 5, the question and responses were: 9. Approximately how many Jews were killed during the Holocaust? Please select from the following list: 25,000 2% : 100,000 3% : 1 million 4% : 2 million 13% #: 6 million 41% #### 20 million 10% # Not sure 27% ##; of which 6 million, even including "not sure", is clearly the modal result.
- mamon 6y agoEven less people know that the total number of casualties of WW II was about 70 million. Many people in the West are under impression that WW II was all about Jews. It wasn't. Even Holocaust wasn't solely about Jews, as they were also people of other nationalities killed in death camps.
- watwut 6y agoHolocaust is by definition only about Jews. Holocaust is not about all the people who died in camps nor only people who died in camps. It is specifically word for genocide of Jews during WWII.
- rasz 6y agoSo a person hiding Jewish child, caught by being denounced by another Jew (1), send to concentration camp and killed is not a victim of Holocaust? 1. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/life-in-shadows-hidden-children-and-the-holocaust https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/life-in-sh...
- watwut 6y agoIt would not count as a victim of Holocaust for statistical purpose. The child would count. I dont think it should count for that stat. The denouncer nationality is completely irrelevant to categorization. You have non-Jewish victims of persecution by Nazi, for multiple reasons. Quite a lot of them, but these are separate from holocaust.
- DanBC 6y agoThere isn't international agreement on the definition of Holocaust. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/introduction-to-the-holocaust https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/introducti... > Holocaust, Hebrew Shoʾah (“Catastrophe”), Yiddish and Hebrew Ḥurban (“Destruction”), the systematic state-sponsored killing of six million Jewish men, women, and children and millions of others by NaziGermany and its collaborators during World War II. The Germans called this “the final solution to the Jewish question.” Yiddish-speaking Jews and survivors in the years immediately following their liberation called the murder of the Jews the Ḥurban, the word used to describe the destruction of the First Temple in Jerusalem by the Babylonians in 586 bce and the destruction of the Second Temple by the Romans in 70 ce. Shoʾah (“Catastrophe”) is the term preferred by Israelis and the French, most especially after Claude Lanzmann’s masterful 1985 motion picture documentary of that title. It is also preferred by people who speak Hebrew and by those who want to be more particular about the Jewish experience or who are uncomfortable with the religious connotations of the word Holocaust. Less universal and more particular, Shoʾah emphasizes the annihilation of the Jews, not the totality of Nazi victims. Versus https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/introduction-to-the-holocaust https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/introducti... > The Holocaust was the systematic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of six million Jews by the Nazi regime and its allies and collaborators. Holocaust is a word of Greek origin meaning "sacrifice by fire." The Nazis, who came to power in Germany in January 1933, believed that Germans were "racially superior" and that the Jews, deemed "inferior," were an alien threat to the so-called German racial community. > During the era of the Holocaust, German authorities also targeted other groups because of their perceived racial and biological inferiority: Roma (Gypsies), people with disabilities, some of the Slavic peoples (Poles, Russians, and others), Soviet prisoners of war, and Black people. Other groups were persecuted on political, ideological, and behavioral grounds, among them Communists, Socialists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and homosexuals.
- bzb5 6y agoStalin killed over 20 million, Mao almost 80 million. How many adult Americans know that?
- Measter 6y agoAnd probably even less aware of the other 11 million people murdered by the Nazis in their camps.
- throwawaysper 6y agoWow @dang. You hell banned me for this? I guess you’re another closet racist Roma hater. Most Americans have no idea that: 500k - 1.5 million Romani & Dom (westerners know them by their perjoratice, “Gypsy”) were killes by Hitler in the holocaust (and yes, Jews recognize the holocaust as including the Romani). [1] They also overlook the 20 million Chinese killed by Japan [2], or the 300k civilians raped and killed in the Nanking Massacre literally for sport [3]. We tend to white wash Russian and Chinese casualties because they are our “enemies”, and most of us don’t know the Roma even exist beyond in a few romanticized books. 1.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_genocide?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_genocide?wprov=sfti1 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties?wprov=... 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre?wprov=sfti1
- iron0013 6y agoAlmost every comment in this thread seems to be some variation of either “So what if a lot of jews died—a lot of other people died in the holocaust too ya know!”, or “So what if a lot of people died in the Holocaust—a lot of people died in communist Russia too ya know!”. I find this kind of whataboutism on this topic to be extremely gross and creepy.