5 ms·

Pointing out that someone is white is about race and I don’t see why we should bring race into this. Are Nike basketball sponsorship deals targeted at black pe

Pointing out that someone is white is about race and I don’t see why we should bring race into this. Are Nike basketball sponsorship deals targeted at black people or are they targeted at the most successful and famous basketball players regardless of their skin pigmentation?

wait-a-minute 6y ago
Some people have nothing interesting or valuable to say, they just always talk about race. Somehow everything becomes about race, even things which have nothing to do with race.
- georgespencer 6y ago
  A few years ago I read an upsetting news story about a girl who was sexually abused for three years by her stepfather, up until the age of eleven or so. She was so traumatised by it that a lasting symptom was a fearful, hysterical reaction to sausage. It was an upsetting, almost cartoonish detail in the story, but it might be helpful to you here. On a rational level she should not be afraid of sausage. But years of abuse meant that she was. It's sad, but understandable. It's just how trauma and conditioning work. One doesn't need to be a victim of racism to empathise with the fact that it has a profound and traumatising impact on people. Maybe you know something about OP that I don't, but if you are right, and there's no reason for them to be talking about race in this instance, it's unlikely you'll persuade them with incredulity that they hold the point of view they do.
georgespencer 6y ago
> Pointing out that someone is white is about race, and I don't see why we should bring race into this. OP didn't point out that anyone was white, they pointed out that although Apple included a variety of races in the video, they believe that this is a service which will appeal to upper and upper middle class Americans, which means predominantly white Americans. They are talking about class, and noting as an aside that they believe this service caters to a predominantly white audience as a consequence of catering to the upper and middle classes. The point is inane because ultimately Apple sells luxury consumer goods which are affordable only to the upper and middle classes, and as you point out Apple rightly has no interest in fighting for equality through its new fitness service. I agree with your point, I'm just saying that OP's point, whilst unintentionally clumsy, did not bring race into it in a meaningful way.
- alwillis 6y ago
  The point is inane because ultimately Apple sells luxury consumer goods which are affordable only to the upper and middle classes… This is so not true. As someone who works with students from families that are low-income, they have lots of Apple products. If Apple is a luxury brand—which I disagree with—then it’s the most accessible luxury brand out there. It certainly is a quality brand. There’s way too much focus on $1000+ flagship phones instead of items like the iPhone SE, which even low-income people can afford at $199 on contract. The Apple Watch 3 is also $199. These devices are less expensive than a shirt or scarf in a Neman Marcus…
  - georgespencer 6y ago
    Lots of people who can't afford or can barely afford Louis Vuitton also have LV stuff. Low income families buying Apple products doesn't mean they're not luxury, it means they are aspirational.
    - alwillis 6y ago
      Lots of people who can't afford or can barely afford Louis Vuitton also have LV stuff. Low income families buying Apple products doesn't mean they're not luxury, it means they are aspirational. I disagree, but I understand this line of thinking, as it supports the false narrative that the iPhone is a luxury item like a Louis Vuitton bag and thus equally unattainable compared to the alternative. You have it backwards. A designer handbag is not a necessity; it's a nice to have. It's optional, especially a new one that costs $3,750.00 [1]. Owning such a bag shows you can blow nearly $4000 on a decorative item and not be concerned about how you're going to pay rent, buy groceries and all the rest. Many people aspire to be able to spend $4000 in a carefree manner. Certainly we can agree that it's a luxury item. A new iPhone SE is $399 ($16.66/month), well within the reach of many more people—that's before we get to a carrier discount, etc. A cell phone isn't a nice to have; it's pretty close to being a necessity for the majority of Americans. Interestingly enough, it would easily run circles around Android devices that cost twice as much. Almost by definition, a luxury item is expensive for what it is. A luxury item is exclusive—you can't just get it anywhere or at anytime. You kinda have to know where to go to get such an item. Apple has sold more than 1 billion iPhones and you can buy one at Walmart, Target, Best Buy and dozens of other retailers. You don't need to be part of an exclusive club to get one. Apple has 40-45% of the US smartphone market, making it pretty common. Real luxury items have a tiny marketshare, usually in the single digits. Part of the allure is these items are not common. High school kids from poor families bagging groceries after school have their own iPhones these days. [1]: https://us.louisvuitton.com/eng-us/products/twist-mini-epi-nvprod2400033v https://us.louisvuitton.com/eng-us/products/twist-mini-epi-n...

wait-a-minute 6y ago

Some people have nothing interesting or valuable to say, they just always talk about race. Somehow everything becomes about race, even things which have nothing to do with race.

georgespencer 6y ago
A few years ago I read an upsetting news story about a girl who was sexually abused for three years by her stepfather, up until the age of eleven or so. She was so traumatised by it that a lasting symptom was a fearful, hysterical reaction to sausage. It was an upsetting, almost cartoonish detail in the story, but it might be helpful to you here. On a rational level she should not be afraid of sausage. But years of abuse meant that she was. It's sad, but understandable. It's just how trauma and conditioning work. One doesn't need to be a victim of racism to empathise with the fact that it has a profound and traumatising impact on people. Maybe you know something about OP that I don't, but if you are right, and there's no reason for them to be talking about race in this instance, it's unlikely you'll persuade them with incredulity that they hold the point of view they do.

georgespencer 6y ago

> Pointing out that someone is white is about race, and I don't see why we should bring race into this. OP didn't point out that anyone was white, they pointed out that although Apple included a variety of races in the video, they believe that this is a service which will appeal to upper and upper middle class Americans, which means predominantly white Americans. They are talking about class, and noting as an aside that they believe this service caters to a predominantly white audience as a consequence of catering to the upper and middle classes. The point is inane because ultimately Apple sells luxury consumer goods which are affordable only to the upper and middle classes, and as you point out Apple rightly has no interest in fighting for equality through its new fitness service. I agree with your point, I'm just saying that OP's point, whilst unintentionally clumsy, did not bring race into it in a meaningful way.

alwillis 6y ago
The point is inane because ultimately Apple sells luxury consumer goods which are affordable only to the upper and middle classes… This is so not true. As someone who works with students from families that are low-income, they have lots of Apple products. If Apple is a luxury brand—which I disagree with—then it’s the most accessible luxury brand out there. It certainly is a quality brand. There’s way too much focus on $1000+ flagship phones instead of items like the iPhone SE, which even low-income people can afford at $199 on contract. The Apple Watch 3 is also $199. These devices are less expensive than a shirt or scarf in a Neman Marcus…
- georgespencer 6y ago
  Lots of people who can't afford or can barely afford Louis Vuitton also have LV stuff. Low income families buying Apple products doesn't mean they're not luxury, it means they are aspirational.
  - alwillis 6y ago
    Lots of people who can't afford or can barely afford Louis Vuitton also have LV stuff. Low income families buying Apple products doesn't mean they're not luxury, it means they are aspirational. I disagree, but I understand this line of thinking, as it supports the false narrative that the iPhone is a luxury item like a Louis Vuitton bag and thus equally unattainable compared to the alternative. You have it backwards. A designer handbag is not a necessity; it's a nice to have. It's optional, especially a new one that costs $3,750.00 [1]. Owning such a bag shows you can blow nearly $4000 on a decorative item and not be concerned about how you're going to pay rent, buy groceries and all the rest. Many people aspire to be able to spend $4000 in a carefree manner. Certainly we can agree that it's a luxury item. A new iPhone SE is $399 ($16.66/month), well within the reach of many more people—that's before we get to a carrier discount, etc. A cell phone isn't a nice to have; it's pretty close to being a necessity for the majority of Americans. Interestingly enough, it would easily run circles around Android devices that cost twice as much. Almost by definition, a luxury item is expensive for what it is. A luxury item is exclusive—you can't just get it anywhere or at anytime. You kinda have to know where to go to get such an item. Apple has sold more than 1 billion iPhones and you can buy one at Walmart, Target, Best Buy and dozens of other retailers. You don't need to be part of an exclusive club to get one. Apple has 40-45% of the US smartphone market, making it pretty common. Real luxury items have a tiny marketshare, usually in the single digits. Part of the allure is these items are not common. High school kids from poor families bagging groceries after school have their own iPhones these days. [1]: https://us.louisvuitton.com/eng-us/products/twist-mini-epi-nvprod2400033v https://us.louisvuitton.com/eng-us/products/twist-mini-epi-n...