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> Aaron E. Carroll is a contributing opinion writer for The New York Times. He is a professor of pediatrics and associate dean for research mentoring > Anthony

> Aaron E. Carroll is a contributing opinion writer for The New York Times. He is a professor of pediatrics and associate dean for research mentoring > Anthony Fauci warned us last week that Covid-19 is likely to be hanging over our lives well into 2021 Anthony Fauci will say and do whatever it takes to keep his face in the media until 2021. I have yet to see him say anything of actual substance. Anthony Fauci needs to stop superspreading fear to the population so he can continue to have podcast conversations with Julia Roberts. > It’s also about an overwhelmed health care system where so many beds are filled that we can’t get care for the many other conditions people experience Can anyone show me a single news story from anywhere in the world where this has happened? > Because of all these unknowns, we will need to continue to be exceedingly careful even as we immunize No. I'm done living this restricted lifestyle. > We need to normalize mask-wearing. It’s a tragedy that this has become politicized and that this simple, safe and effective measure is in dispute. It’s about protecting others even more than ourselves. That such an action is now viewed as weakness is horrific. Clutch those pearls, wring those hands, put everyone into the same basket. There you go. I view it as nannys such as Aaron E. Carroll and the government telling me how to live when instead they could be telling the vulnerable and scared to mask up and stay inside. Perhaps Aaron E. Carroll should go back to treating children and perhaps Dr. Fauci should stop superspreading fear, under the guise of safety and concern, for his own gain.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago
> Can anyone show me a single news story from anywhere in the world where this has happened? Yes, absolutely. The New York hospital systems were in bad shape during the initial outbreak, for example: https://www.foxnews.com/health/nyc-hospitals-overwhelmed-by-coronavirus-patients-resident-warns https://www.foxnews.com/health/nyc-hospitals-overwhelmed-by-... Check local NY news websites during that timeframe for more examples: https://abc7ny.com/nyc-hospital-queens-coronavirus-news/6070475/ https://abc7ny.com/nyc-hospital-queens-coronavirus-news/6070... Also note that hospitals have suspended or delayed procedures that can be held off in order to allocate more capacity to Coronavirus patients. Hospitals are notoriously revenue-hungry operations, so taking voluntary measures to reduce certain procedures to make room for Coronavirus treatment is not something they're going to take lightly.
- briandear 6y ago
  It happened. But it's not still happening. Note that New York hasn't had the promised "second wave." Article: "New York City nervously braces" -> https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/27/new-york-city-another-spread-403379 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/27/new-york-city-anoth... No big second wave in Sweden either: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-secondwave/swedish-covid-19-response-chief-predicts-local-outbreaks-no-big-second-wave-idUSKBN25K1B2 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden... Yet we did have a second wave in California. What's the difference? California locked down fast and tight while De Blasio was telling New Yorkers to visit Broadway. As late as March 12, De Blasio was hoping to keep subways and Broadway open. Santa Clara County locked down around March 16. Sweden never locked down at all. New York was late to the lockdown party and it seems that while it caused a steep curve, that curve probably led to a more rapid herd immunity. People seem to forget that "Flatten the Curve" doesn't change the area under the curve. Most people here are going to scoff at this source, however, this article is pretty solid on data on lockdowns and deaths per capita: https://www.aier.org/article/a-closer-look-at-the-states-that-stayed-open/ https://www.aier.org/article/a-closer-look-at-the-states-tha... (TLDR: non-lockdown states are among the best in terms of deaths per capita, while the strictest lockdown states have been hit hardest.
briandear 6y ago
And it's interesting how certain media outlets, specifically The NY Times and Washington Post have promoted this extreme view of lockdowns -- they seem to be fanning the flames even in light of scientific opinions that cast some doubt on their original editorial assertions. This article[0] encapsulates my feelings pretty well and how there seems to be a vested interest in some of the various players into prolonging and magnifying this situation. The money quote: "Perhaps all of these terrible consequences could be justified if lockdowns were preventing the mass coronavirus deaths that Neil Ferguson predicted in March, using the now-debunked Imperial Model. Indeed, it was this model that prompted many Western politicians to panic. Programmers who later examined the code deemed it “totally unreliable,” a “buggy mess,” and found that it could not be replicated and that it yielded wildly inaccurate results. Why governments relied upon Mr. Ferguson’s model to enact such extreme policies, given that his disease modeling had been grossly exaggerated many times in the past, is a topic for another day. Not only were the lockdowns premised on bad science but, contrary to the premature declarations of publications such as the New York Times and politicians like Governor Cuomo, suppressive measures do not work. In fact, the Lancet recently published a study in which the authors concluded that “rapid border closures, full lockdowns, and wide-spread testing were not associated with COVID-19 mortality per million people.[1]" She's referring to the Lancet, not a Fox News opinion piece. And another key quote: "Many epidemiologists have observed that the virus follows the same trajectory nearly everywhere, regardless of government restrictions: it climbs, plateaus, and then retreats within about six to ten weeks." And the suppression of the Sunetra Gupta research is also telling.[2] Important context: "She rejected being bracketed with libertarian lockdown skeptics, saying her opposition came from the left. 'I personally think that only thinking along the lines of eliminating coronavirus, without giving heed to the consequences on the disadvantaged young and globally, is a dereliction of our duties as global citizens'." Life could get back to normal(er) but there's too much inertia resisting such a radical idea. And there seems to be some sick subset of people that actually like this current state of affairs. I'm willing to bet that if this weren't a US election year, massive lockdowns and outright media-fueled hysteria wouldn't have happened. To be clear, I'm not saying the virus wasn't a big deal, but the actual data reveals a much different reality than the one advertised. [0] https://www.aier.org/article/whats-gone-wrong-with-left-liberalism-and-lockdowns/ https://www.aier.org/article/whats-gone-wrong-with-left-libe... [1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30208-X/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5... [2] https://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/the-londoner-let-children-be-exposed-to-viruses-says-professor-gupta-a4538386.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/the-londoner...

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

> Can anyone show me a single news story from anywhere in the world where this has happened? Yes, absolutely. The New York hospital systems were in bad shape during the initial outbreak, for example: https://www.foxnews.com/health/nyc-hospitals-overwhelmed-by-coronavirus-patients-resident-warns https://www.foxnews.com/health/nyc-hospitals-overwhelmed-by-... Check local NY news websites during that timeframe for more examples: https://abc7ny.com/nyc-hospital-queens-coronavirus-news/6070475/ https://abc7ny.com/nyc-hospital-queens-coronavirus-news/6070... Also note that hospitals have suspended or delayed procedures that can be held off in order to allocate more capacity to Coronavirus patients. Hospitals are notoriously revenue-hungry operations, so taking voluntary measures to reduce certain procedures to make room for Coronavirus treatment is not something they're going to take lightly.

briandear 6y ago
It happened. But it's not still happening. Note that New York hasn't had the promised "second wave." Article: "New York City nervously braces" -> https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/27/new-york-city-another-spread-403379 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/27/new-york-city-anoth... No big second wave in Sweden either: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-secondwave/swedish-covid-19-response-chief-predicts-local-outbreaks-no-big-second-wave-idUSKBN25K1B2 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden... Yet we did have a second wave in California. What's the difference? California locked down fast and tight while De Blasio was telling New Yorkers to visit Broadway. As late as March 12, De Blasio was hoping to keep subways and Broadway open. Santa Clara County locked down around March 16. Sweden never locked down at all. New York was late to the lockdown party and it seems that while it caused a steep curve, that curve probably led to a more rapid herd immunity. People seem to forget that "Flatten the Curve" doesn't change the area under the curve. Most people here are going to scoff at this source, however, this article is pretty solid on data on lockdowns and deaths per capita: https://www.aier.org/article/a-closer-look-at-the-states-that-stayed-open/ https://www.aier.org/article/a-closer-look-at-the-states-tha... (TLDR: non-lockdown states are among the best in terms of deaths per capita, while the strictest lockdown states have been hit hardest.

briandear 6y ago

And it's interesting how certain media outlets, specifically The NY Times and Washington Post have promoted this extreme view of lockdowns -- they seem to be fanning the flames even in light of scientific opinions that cast some doubt on their original editorial assertions. This article[0] encapsulates my feelings pretty well and how there seems to be a vested interest in some of the various players into prolonging and magnifying this situation. The money quote: "Perhaps all of these terrible consequences could be justified if lockdowns were preventing the mass coronavirus deaths that Neil Ferguson predicted in March, using the now-debunked Imperial Model. Indeed, it was this model that prompted many Western politicians to panic. Programmers who later examined the code deemed it “totally unreliable,” a “buggy mess,” and found that it could not be replicated and that it yielded wildly inaccurate results. Why governments relied upon Mr. Ferguson’s model to enact such extreme policies, given that his disease modeling had been grossly exaggerated many times in the past, is a topic for another day. Not only were the lockdowns premised on bad science but, contrary to the premature declarations of publications such as the New York Times and politicians like Governor Cuomo, suppressive measures do not work. In fact, the Lancet recently published a study in which the authors concluded that “rapid border closures, full lockdowns, and wide-spread testing were not associated with COVID-19 mortality per million people.[1]" She's referring to the Lancet, not a Fox News opinion piece. And another key quote: "Many epidemiologists have observed that the virus follows the same trajectory nearly everywhere, regardless of government restrictions: it climbs, plateaus, and then retreats within about six to ten weeks." And the suppression of the Sunetra Gupta research is also telling.[2] Important context: "She rejected being bracketed with libertarian lockdown skeptics, saying her opposition came from the left. 'I personally think that only thinking along the lines of eliminating coronavirus, without giving heed to the consequences on the disadvantaged young and globally, is a dereliction of our duties as global citizens'." Life could get back to normal(er) but there's too much inertia resisting such a radical idea. And there seems to be some sick subset of people that actually like this current state of affairs. I'm willing to bet that if this weren't a US election year, massive lockdowns and outright media-fueled hysteria wouldn't have happened. To be clear, I'm not saying the virus wasn't a big deal, but the actual data reveals a much different reality than the one advertised. [0] https://www.aier.org/article/whats-gone-wrong-with-left-liberalism-and-lockdowns/ https://www.aier.org/article/whats-gone-wrong-with-left-libe... [1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30208-X/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5... [2] https://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/the-londoner-let-children-be-exposed-to-viruses-says-professor-gupta-a4538386.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/the-londoner...