5 ms·

Squash to monetise players’ physiological data to attract more eyeballs

50 points by mhb 6y ago

darcys22 6y ago
I used to wear a fitbit when playing squash but after a while heart rate data says the same boring stuff and doesnt help much. Unsure if the tech is there but id be more interested if they tracked the players movements in detail using some form of motion capture. Squash is confined in a small room so its probably easier to do this than other sports. Have a fully digitised replay available for each game. Then we could start analysing the data to show to amateurs how they should have moved and reacted within their own games compared to how the top players have reacted in similar situations.
- jgable 6y ago
  This is a neat idea. PSA currently shows a movement heat map over the course of each game but it isn’t interesting either - they are all just very similar looking blobs. I would love to see slow-motion breakdowns, but that might only be interesting to fans who play seriously. Then again, maybe that’s most fans since it is a more obscure sport? I’m just glad they finally figured out that dark blue courts and a white ball is the only combination that gives people a hope of seeing the ball on TV. High def viewing helps too, of course, but the old color schemes used before 8-10 years ago made it impossible to see the ball.
  - mavelikara 6y ago
    Yeah, the blue/white combo has indeed revolutionized the TV viewing experience. We need more characters in the commentary box too though. Joey Barrington is good at what he does, but others are "Meh" so far. A spot in the summer olympics would go a long way to improve everything, of course.
    - jgable 6y ago
      What is the deal with the commentators emphasizing when the players “fist pump” and pronouncing it strangely? Such a silly gimmick.
- derivagral 6y ago
  There's a bunch of apps now sort of like this for golf: swing, posture, ball flight, etc. Given something like this old post about tensorflow[1], you'd think this isn't even the worst hobby project if you can get some footage that a model likes. I've never really thought to try running NBA clips through it... [1]https://medium.com/tensorflow/real-time-human-pose-estimation-in-the-browser-with-tensorflow-js-7dd0bc881cd5 https://medium.com/tensorflow/real-time-human-pose-estimatio...
- cellis 6y ago
  PSA has done this in terms of heatmaps with sportsdatalabs. Personally I would invest into a video AI for let/no let system, as well as better camera systems for out of bounds calls ( like in tennis ). Also, switch to a lime ball on a blue or even black glass surface would make for even better watchability imo.
  - darcys22 6y ago
    An AI system that makes let calls would revolutionise the sport!!
- uoaei 6y ago
  Accelerometers on the wrists, ankles, hips, and ... back of the head? And that would be enough to pretty much fully reconstruct the player's movements.
- learnstats2 6y ago
  Considered carefully, heart rate data measures your tiredness (probably even better: how quickly it returns to baseline). For pro athletes, comparing heart rate data to the player's typical patterns could tell you how hard they are being pushed and potentially give a very good indicator of who was going to win.
  - dmurray 6y ago
    You could sell the data to gamblers, as well. Not sure if squash is popular in the same markets as sports gambling, but there's at least some opportunity there.
p1necone 6y ago
I mean this with the utmost respect, but why is squash so damn popular with wealthy middle aged tech dudes?
- mavelikara 6y ago
  It is a very "efficient" sport in terms of calories burned per unit time. And great fun too. This makes it popular with busy people - tech, finance - who are likely to pick a sport based on an excel sheet analysis :) But I wish that the squash courts in US are not located within expensive athletic clubs, like in UK or Pakistan. That would've popularized the amazing sport more here in US.
  - lmm 6y ago
    It's efficient space-wise as well - a city-centre gym can fit squash courts more easily than tennis/volleyball/basketball.
    - dmurray 6y ago
      I didn't believe this about basketball, since it accommodates 5x as many players, but it's true: a squash court is 62 sqm and a basketball court is 420 sqm. OK, you can't tile squash courts with no wasted space between, but you normally need some space out of bounds of the basketball court too.
  - Zippogriff 6y ago
    It's a class-segregated sport in the US (not sure about elsewhere). This is called out in the tongue-in-cheek-but-mostly-accurate Official Preppy Handbook. For some reason it is "higher class" than racquetball, and, sure enough, racquetball courts are much easier to find in non-rich areas. Perhaps this is a case where the general principal from the same book holds true: the smaller the ball, the more Prep the sport (squash balls are smaller than those for racquetball).
- darcys22 6y ago
  My interpretation is that the sport had a huge peak of interest in the 70s and that generation of players dominate the dwindling number of new players
nemoniac 6y ago
With the Tour de France on at the moment, you have to wonder if live tracking and publishing cyclists physiological data could help with detection of doping, which has been endemic in the sport throughout the years.
- tokai 6y ago
  But how? Investigating riders putting up higher watts than usual? The already implemented biological passport makes more sense to me.
simplegeek 6y ago
As an avid fan, I would be more interested in a)- how modern squash players train b)- if they can give me feedback on my game via video. I once trained with a former World 80, he was a nephew of a former world-champion. His coaching and feedback on the game was 100 times better/different than the club's coach. Training with him for 15 days, I think, had 10x times more ROI than training with club coach. These professional players / coaches are miles ahead. His feedback on my game, racket skill, movement, and even on warm-up was so different. I had never warmed-up like that before and his prescribed exercises was so different and effective.
- HenryBemis 6y ago
  Imagine the marketable aspect of this "openess". You watch a football (aka soccer) game, the score is 1-1, the game is in its first 20mins (70 left to play) and you see that team A has an average heartrate of 100, and team B has an average heartrate of 130. You can then place your (live) bet accordingly having this stress/fatigue/stamina factor (or whatever other metrics may be available).

50 points by mhb 6y ago

I used to wear a fitbit when playing squash but after a while heart rate data says the same boring stuff and doesnt help much. Unsure if the tech is there but id be more interested if they tracked the players movements in detail using some form of motion capture. Squash is confined in a small room so its probably easier to do this than other sports. Have a fully digitised replay available for each game. Then we could start analysing the data to show to amateurs how they should have moved and reacted within their own games compared to how the top players have reacted in similar situations.

jgable 6y ago
This is a neat idea. PSA currently shows a movement heat map over the course of each game but it isn’t interesting either - they are all just very similar looking blobs. I would love to see slow-motion breakdowns, but that might only be interesting to fans who play seriously. Then again, maybe that’s most fans since it is a more obscure sport? I’m just glad they finally figured out that dark blue courts and a white ball is the only combination that gives people a hope of seeing the ball on TV. High def viewing helps too, of course, but the old color schemes used before 8-10 years ago made it impossible to see the ball.
- mavelikara 6y ago
  Yeah, the blue/white combo has indeed revolutionized the TV viewing experience. We need more characters in the commentary box too though. Joey Barrington is good at what he does, but others are "Meh" so far. A spot in the summer olympics would go a long way to improve everything, of course.
  - jgable 6y ago
    What is the deal with the commentators emphasizing when the players “fist pump” and pronouncing it strangely? Such a silly gimmick.
derivagral 6y ago
There's a bunch of apps now sort of like this for golf: swing, posture, ball flight, etc. Given something like this old post about tensorflow[1], you'd think this isn't even the worst hobby project if you can get some footage that a model likes. I've never really thought to try running NBA clips through it... [1]https://medium.com/tensorflow/real-time-human-pose-estimation-in-the-browser-with-tensorflow-js-7dd0bc881cd5 https://medium.com/tensorflow/real-time-human-pose-estimatio...
cellis 6y ago
PSA has done this in terms of heatmaps with sportsdatalabs. Personally I would invest into a video AI for let/no let system, as well as better camera systems for out of bounds calls ( like in tennis ). Also, switch to a lime ball on a blue or even black glass surface would make for even better watchability imo.
- darcys22 6y ago
  An AI system that makes let calls would revolutionise the sport!!
uoaei 6y ago
Accelerometers on the wrists, ankles, hips, and ... back of the head? And that would be enough to pretty much fully reconstruct the player's movements.
learnstats2 6y ago
Considered carefully, heart rate data measures your tiredness (probably even better: how quickly it returns to baseline). For pro athletes, comparing heart rate data to the player's typical patterns could tell you how hard they are being pushed and potentially give a very good indicator of who was going to win.
- dmurray 6y ago
  You could sell the data to gamblers, as well. Not sure if squash is popular in the same markets as sports gambling, but there's at least some opportunity there.

p1necone 6y ago

I mean this with the utmost respect, but why is squash so damn popular with wealthy middle aged tech dudes?

mavelikara 6y ago
It is a very "efficient" sport in terms of calories burned per unit time. And great fun too. This makes it popular with busy people - tech, finance - who are likely to pick a sport based on an excel sheet analysis :) But I wish that the squash courts in US are not located within expensive athletic clubs, like in UK or Pakistan. That would've popularized the amazing sport more here in US.
- lmm 6y ago
  It's efficient space-wise as well - a city-centre gym can fit squash courts more easily than tennis/volleyball/basketball.
  - dmurray 6y ago
    I didn't believe this about basketball, since it accommodates 5x as many players, but it's true: a squash court is 62 sqm and a basketball court is 420 sqm. OK, you can't tile squash courts with no wasted space between, but you normally need some space out of bounds of the basketball court too.
- Zippogriff 6y ago
  It's a class-segregated sport in the US (not sure about elsewhere). This is called out in the tongue-in-cheek-but-mostly-accurate Official Preppy Handbook. For some reason it is "higher class" than racquetball, and, sure enough, racquetball courts are much easier to find in non-rich areas. Perhaps this is a case where the general principal from the same book holds true: the smaller the ball, the more Prep the sport (squash balls are smaller than those for racquetball).
darcys22 6y ago
My interpretation is that the sport had a huge peak of interest in the 70s and that generation of players dominate the dwindling number of new players

nemoniac 6y ago

With the Tour de France on at the moment, you have to wonder if live tracking and publishing cyclists physiological data could help with detection of doping, which has been endemic in the sport throughout the years.

tokai 6y ago
But how? Investigating riders putting up higher watts than usual? The already implemented biological passport makes more sense to me.

simplegeek 6y ago

As an avid fan, I would be more interested in a)- how modern squash players train b)- if they can give me feedback on my game via video. I once trained with a former World 80, he was a nephew of a former world-champion. His coaching and feedback on the game was 100 times better/different than the club's coach. Training with him for 15 days, I think, had 10x times more ROI than training with club coach. These professional players / coaches are miles ahead. His feedback on my game, racket skill, movement, and even on warm-up was so different. I had never warmed-up like that before and his prescribed exercises was so different and effective.

HenryBemis 6y ago
Imagine the marketable aspect of this "openess". You watch a football (aka soccer) game, the score is 1-1, the game is in its first 20mins (70 left to play) and you see that team A has an average heartrate of 100, and team B has an average heartrate of 130. You can then place your (live) bet accordingly having this stress/fatigue/stamina factor (or whatever other metrics may be available).